Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think MB has investigated the "risks." > LOL… just like when they have "investigated" the risks of letting people > run dino oil on Flexible Service System (FSS) schedule a couple of years ago > that cost them a pretty penny? > http://www.lubereport.com/e_article000146166.cfm?x=a1F3Slh,a13FsCnP > Cheers, > Pete
Out of that experience was born M1 0w-40. So yes, I think they know more about the performance levels of current dino vs. synthetic oils in their FSS system than you do. Be as pessimistic as you like. If an owner of a vehicle with an Oil Life Monitoring System chooses to run an oil OTHER THAN the one called for in the service book…. and the engine sludges up …. who’s to blame? Thank you. — ~Philip "Multiculturalism and coercive tolerance of bizarre lifestyles describes a social experiment, not a civilization." –Paul Gottfried
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> Out of that experience was born M1 0w-40. So yes, I think they know > more about the performance levels of current dino vs. synthetic oils in > their FSS system than you do. Be as pessimistic as you like. If an > owner of a vehicle with an Oil Life Monitoring System chooses to run an > oil OTHER THAN the one called for in the service book…. and the > engine sludges up …. who’s to blame? Thank you.
But that’s exactly the point – they didn’t specify that the oil had to be synthetic. That’s why all this FSS blew up in their face. I have nothing against M1 0w-40; heck, I use it myself. I’m just saying, don’t rely on one company’s oil recommendations because they may not always be right. Cheers, Pete
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>>Their 0W-20 or 5W-30? [snip] >I think the answer lies in Honda’s alternative and previous history of >recommendations. e.g. for my 2K Accord the recommendation is 5W/30 with >the alternative of 10W/30 for temps down to 20F. Remember those are also >for "economy" grade mineral based oils. What does the owner manual >actually specify for oil?… is there an alternative to the 5W/20? My >advice, when the exact recommended grade is not available, would be to go >up rather than down in SAE numbers, especially if you live in a temperate >climate.
I see, I see. Thanks for your reply, George, even though you’re not particuarly fond of SUV’s 
So, if I were to go up in SAE numbers from the 5W-20 grade, then which should I be using, Mobil 1’s 0W-20 or the 5W-30 grade? Sorry, nobody ever accused me of being sharp. Thanks.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Out of that experience was born M1 0w-40. So yes, I think they know > more about the performance levels of current dino vs. synthetic oils in > their FSS system than you do. Be as pessimistic as you like. If an > owner of a vehicle with an Oil Life Monitoring System chooses to run an > oil OTHER THAN the one called for in the service book…. and the > engine sludges up …. who’s to blame? Thank you. > But that’s exactly the point – they didn’t specify that the oil had to be > synthetic. That’s why all this FSS blew up in their face. > I have nothing against M1 0w-40; heck, I use it myself. I’m just saying, > don’t rely on one company’s oil recommendations because they may not always > be right. > Cheers, > Pete
Surely there is a learning curve with all cutting edge technology. You know this. But what seems odd is that once along the learing curve, you wish to continue chastising a company for past errors. Now… when the oil recommendation is QUITE specific for the car manufacturer’s oil monitoring system to work correctly, then using an different oil (talking about composition, NOT viscosity) then all bets are off. But if it is as you say that nothing more than an oil weight was identified well then…. (see "learning curve") — ~Philip "Multiculturalism and coercive tolerance of bizarre lifestyles describes a social experiment, not a civilization." –Paul Gottfried
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> I strongly suspect that the Mobil SuperSyn has no tradittional VI improver > additive at all – the VI enhancement comes from the SuperSyn components > which are themselves PAOs – so the usual shear of the additive is not a > concern. I think your right about the use of a 5W/xx or 10W/30 though – no > need for 0W/xx unless necessary and I still suspect there are risks which > have not been fully investigated. > Rgds, George Macdonald
Mercedes Benz has endorsed Mobil1 0w-40 for awhile now and it’s the only M1 product to meet/exceed MB 229.3 and 229.5 tesing. Also meets ACEA A3/B4-02 and B3-98. I think MB has investigated the "risks." — ~Philip "Multiculturalism and coercive tolerance of bizarre lifestyles describes a social experiment, not a civilization." –Paul Gottfried
Response:
> I think MB has investigated the "risks."
LOL… just like when they have "investigated" the risks of letting people run dino oil on Flexible Service System (FSS) schedule a couple of years ago that cost them a pretty penny? http://www.lubereport.com/e_article000146166.cfm?x=a1F3Slh,a13FsCnP Cheers, Pete
Response:
Plenty about SAE, API, ILSAC requirements/test procedure, plus ISO and JASO. If I needed a chemistry lesson, my retired uncle with 35 years as a Texaco petroleum engineer, was just a phone call away. Jon
>Well, I work as Toyota service advisor, and in the past, as a petroleum >sales rep for the largest Valvoline distributor in the US. I was also the >training director for a chain of 15 quick lubes. > Sales reps are not what one usually thinks of as tribology experts. How > much do you actually know about the SAE, API & ILSAC grading systems, > molecular structure, viscosity measurement and its effects and all the > other characteristics of lubricants? > Rgds, George Macdonald > "Just because they’re paranoid doesn’t mean you’re not psychotic" – Who,
me??
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> But is there any car that actually specifies 0W-20? Wouldn’t it make > sense for them to market 5W-20, which is specified by many Honda and > Ford vehicles these days?
AFAIK, Honda Insight specifies 0w-20. Cheers, Pete
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>SNIP< > As to Honda, I wonder how they’d explain the lab results of the > *factory* fill on my 2002 Si which revealed an operating temperature > viscosity of < 10W at 5500 miles. Hell, the lab thought there must be > gasoline in the oil but there wasn’t any nor any clue as to the results.
Probably a break-in oil for American drivers who are usually frightened to death to gouge on the gas pedal during the first 300 miles. — ~Philip "Multiculturalism and coercive tolerance of bizarre lifestyles describes a social experiment, not a civilization." –Paul Gottfried
Response:
>Well, I work as Toyota service advisor, and in the past, as a petroleum >sales rep for the largest Valvoline distributor in the US. I was also the >training director for a chain of 15 quick lubes.
Sales reps are not what one usually thinks of as tribology experts. How much do you actually know about the SAE, API & ILSAC grading systems, molecular structure, viscosity measurement and its effects and all the other characteristics of lubricants? Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they’re paranoid doesn’t mean you’re not psychotic" – Who, me??
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>> As an aside, now that Mobil markets M1 0W-30, I wonder how long they > will continue making 5W-30? Why will people still want the extra > viscosity of 5W during the winter time? >The smaller the viscosity spread, the more shear-stable the oil. That’s why >Mobil will continue to make 5w-30 and 10w-30 for those who don’t live in >Alaska.
I strongly suspect that the Mobil SuperSyn has no tradittional VI improver additive at all – the VI enhancement comes from the SuperSyn components which are themselves PAOs – so the usual shear of the additive is not a concern. I think your right about the use of a 5W/xx or 10W/30 though – no need for 0W/xx unless necessary and I still suspect there are risks which have not been fully investigated. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they’re paranoid doesn’t mean you’re not psychotic" – Who, me??
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Their 0W-20 or 5W-30? >The reason I ask is because, my 24,000KM (15,000miles) service for my >SUV is due soon and want to start using synthetic oil, but since the >dealer I usually go to has expressed their reluctance in using a grade >of oil other than 5W-20, even if fully synthetic (Mobil 1), I decided >to call all the other dealers in town (3 others). >They’re letting me use Mobil 1’s oil, but ALL recommended me to use >5W-30, instead of 0W-20. I was rather surprised since I thought that >Mobil 1’s 0W-20 grade was the one that most closely resembled the lube >characteristics of the 5W-20. The general consensus from the service >advisors was that Mobil 1’s 0W-20 would be "too light". >But it was my understanding that the only thing different between >0W-20 and 5W-20 is the "winter" temperature viscosity set out by the >SAE and the viscosity at operating temp is the same. Whereas, it’s >the vise versa between 5W-20 and 5W-30. >I’m really confused here. It’s all Mobil 1’s fault. They should’ve >came out with a 5W-20 as well. But are all the service >advisors/technicians I spoke with misinformed or do I just have the >incorrect understanding of the oil grade designation? >I do apologize for beating an old horse, but I’m just confused now >after having spoken with those service advisors/technicians.
I think the answer lies in Honda’s alternative and previous history of recommendations. e.g. for my 2K Accord the recommendation is 5W/30 with the alternative of 10W/30 for temps down to 20F. Remember those are also for "economy" grade mineral based oils. What does the owner manual actually specify for oil?… is there an alternative to the 5W/20? My advice, when the exact recommended grade is not available, would be to go up rather than down in SAE numbers, especially if you live in a temperate climate. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they’re paranoid doesn’t mean you’re not psychotic" – Who, me??
Response:
I have switched to AMSOIL over Mobil. You can get it in a 5W-20 and the price is better and meets or exceeds any specs of the Mobil 1. I also run it in my motorcycles…and I’m even more picky about what goes into my bikes 
http://www.amsoil.com/products/xl7500.html No, I don’t work for Amsoil We go through quite a few cases of the motorcycle stuff each hear, so I pay that Preferred Dealer fee but get a big break on price. Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Their 0W-20 or 5W-30? > The reason I ask is because, my 24,000KM (15,000miles) service for my > SUV is due soon and want to start using synthetic oil, but since the > dealer I usually go to has expressed their reluctance in using a grade > of oil other than 5W-20, even if fully synthetic (Mobil 1), I decided > to call all the other dealers in town (3 others). > They’re letting me use Mobil 1’s oil, but ALL recommended me to use > 5W-30, instead of 0W-20. I was rather surprised since I thought that > Mobil 1’s 0W-20 grade was the one that most closely resembled the lube > characteristics of the 5W-20. The general consensus from the service > advisors was that Mobil 1’s 0W-20 would be "too light". > But it was my understanding that the only thing different between > 0W-20 and 5W-20 is the "winter" temperature viscosity set out by the > SAE and the viscosity at operating temp is the same. Whereas, it’s > the vise versa between 5W-20 and 5W-30. > I’m really confused here. It’s all Mobil 1’s fault. They should’ve > came out with a 5W-20 as well. But are all the service > advisors/technicians I spoke with misinformed or do I just have the > incorrect understanding of the oil grade designation? > I do apologize for beating an old horse, but I’m just confused now > after having spoken with those service advisors/technicians.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Their 0W-20 or 5W-30? >The reason I ask is because, my 24,000KM (15,000miles) service for my >SUV is due soon and want to start using synthetic oil, but since the >dealer I usually go to has expressed their reluctance in using a grade >of oil other than 5W-20, even if fully synthetic (Mobil 1), I decided >to call all the other dealers in town (3 others). >They’re letting me use Mobil 1’s oil, but ALL recommended me to use >5W-30, instead of 0W-20. I was rather surprised since I thought that >Mobil 1’s 0W-20 grade was the one that most closely resembled the lube >characteristics of the 5W-20. The general consensus from the service >advisors was that Mobil 1’s 0W-20 would be "too light". > They could claim that 0W-20 caused any internal damage and void the > warranty – and that’s a huge concern to you.
They can claim anything they want. Proof’s another story and the burden is on them – at least in the US. My oil analyst says there’s little difference between real synthetic 0W-20 & 5W-20 &, interestingly 0W-30 in terms of viscosity. Mobil Oil says 0W-20 was designed for cars that use 5W-20. Point is, it doesn’t make much difference and dealerships are the last place I’d look for advice. As to Honda, I wonder how they’d explain the lab results of the *factory* fill on my 2002 Si which revealed an operating temperature viscosity of < 10W at 5500 miles. Hell, the lab thought there must be gasoline in the oil but there wasn’t any nor any clue as to the results.
Response:
>It makes no sense for Mobil to market a 5W-20 synthetic when the >technology easily allows them to do better — hence the 0W-20. Why >would you want extra viscosity in a synthetic oil under cold conditions?
But is there any car that actually specifies 0W-20? Wouldn’t it make sense for them to market 5W-20, which is specified by many Honda and Ford vehicles these days? — Timothy J. Lee Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome. No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
Response:
Use the maximum oil viscosity recommended for use in your service manual. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Their 0W-20 or 5W-30? > The reason I ask is because, my 24,000KM (15,000miles) service for my > SUV is due soon and want to start using synthetic oil, but since the > dealer I usually go to has expressed their reluctance in using a grade > of oil other than 5W-20, even if fully synthetic (Mobil 1), I decided > to call all the other dealers in town (3 others). > They’re letting me use Mobil 1’s oil, but ALL recommended me to use > 5W-30, instead of 0W-20. I was rather surprised since I thought that > Mobil 1’s 0W-20 grade was the one that most closely resembled the lube > characteristics of the 5W-20. The general consensus from the service > advisors was that Mobil 1’s 0W-20 would be "too light". > But it was my understanding that the only thing different between > 0W-20 and 5W-20 is the "winter" temperature viscosity set out by the > SAE and the viscosity at operating temp is the same. Whereas, it’s > the vise versa between 5W-20 and 5W-30. > I’m really confused here. It’s all Mobil 1’s fault. They should’ve > came out with a 5W-20 as well. But are all the service > advisors/technicians I spoke with misinformed or do I just have the > incorrect understanding of the oil grade designation? > I do apologize for beating an old horse, but I’m just confused now > after having spoken with those service advisors/technicians.
Response:
Interesting is that only M1 0w-40 meets Mercedes’ toughest MB229.3 and 229.5 specs. M1 5w-30 and 10w-30 do not. I haven’t seen a bottle of M1 0w-20 or 5w-20 yet. Southern California isn’t a place to get concerned about cold cranking temps. LOL — ~Philip "Multiculturalism and coercive tolerance of bizarre lifestyles describes a social experiment, not a civilization." –Paul Gottfried
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Steve, > I think you are correct and your advisors are misinformed. > It makes no sense for Mobil to market a 5W-20 synthetic when the > technology easily allows them to do better — hence the 0W-20. Why > would you want extra viscosity in a synthetic oil under cold conditions? > (Ideally the oil would have the same viscosity under all conditions. Now > what that ideal viscosity might be remains a good question!) > The reason Honda specifies 5W-20 oil instead of 0W-20 is that mineral > oils can’t achieve the 0W rating, and most customers wouldn’t pay the > extra cost for a pure synthetic that would be required. > So I think using M1 0W-20 should be acceptable for your Honda. In fact > Mobil recommends the 0W-20 as a substitute for 5W-20. Check the label. > As an aside, now that Mobil markets M1 0W-30, I wonder how long they > will continue making 5W-30? Why will people still want the extra > viscosity of 5W during the winter time? > Their 0W-20 or 5W-30? > The reason I ask is because, my 24,000KM (15,000miles) service for my > SUV is due soon and want to start using synthetic oil, but since the > dealer I usually go to has expressed their reluctance in using a grade > of oil other than 5W-20, even if fully synthetic (Mobil 1), I decided > to call all the other dealers in town (3 others). > They’re letting me use Mobil 1’s oil, but ALL recommended me to use > 5W-30, instead of 0W-20. I was rather surprised since I thought that > Mobil 1’s 0W-20 grade was the one that most closely resembled the lube > characteristics of the 5W-20. The general consensus from the service > advisors was that Mobil 1’s 0W-20 would be "too light". > But it was my understanding that the only thing different between > 0W-20 and 5W-20 is the "winter" temperature viscosity set out by the > SAE and the viscosity at operating temp is the same. Whereas, it’s > the vise versa between 5W-20 and 5W-30. > I’m really confused here. It’s all Mobil 1’s fault. They should’ve > came out with a 5W-20 as well. But are all the service > advisors/technicians I spoke with misinformed or do I just have the > incorrect understanding of the oil grade designation? > I do apologize for beating an old horse, but I’m just confused now > after having spoken with those service advisors/technicians.
Response:
Steve, I think you are correct and your advisors are misinformed. It makes no sense for Mobil to market a 5W-20 synthetic when the technology easily allows them to do better — hence the 0W-20. Why would you want extra viscosity in a synthetic oil under cold conditions? (Ideally the oil would have the same viscosity under all conditions. Now what that ideal viscosity might be remains a good question!) The reason Honda specifies 5W-20 oil instead of 0W-20 is that mineral oils can’t achieve the 0W rating, and most customers wouldn’t pay the extra cost for a pure synthetic that would be required. So I think using M1 0W-20 should be acceptable for your Honda. In fact Mobil recommends the 0W-20 as a substitute for 5W-20. Check the label. As an aside, now that Mobil markets M1 0W-30, I wonder how long they will continue making 5W-30? Why will people still want the extra viscosity of 5W during the winter time? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Their 0W-20 or 5W-30? > The reason I ask is because, my 24,000KM (15,000miles) service for my > SUV is due soon and want to start using synthetic oil, but since the > dealer I usually go to has expressed their reluctance in using a grade > of oil other than 5W-20, even if fully synthetic (Mobil 1), I decided > to call all the other dealers in town (3 others). > They’re letting me use Mobil 1’s oil, but ALL recommended me to use > 5W-30, instead of 0W-20. I was rather surprised since I thought that > Mobil 1’s 0W-20 grade was the one that most closely resembled the lube > characteristics of the 5W-20. The general consensus from the service > advisors was that Mobil 1’s 0W-20 would be "too light". > But it was my understanding that the only thing different between > 0W-20 and 5W-20 is the "winter" temperature viscosity set out by the > SAE and the viscosity at operating temp is the same. Whereas, it’s > the vise versa between 5W-20 and 5W-30. > I’m really confused here. It’s all Mobil 1’s fault. They should’ve > came out with a 5W-20 as well. But are all the service > advisors/technicians I spoke with misinformed or do I just have the > incorrect understanding of the oil grade designation? > I do apologize for beating an old horse, but I’m just confused now > after having spoken with those service advisors/technicians.
Response:
What percentage would you say are clueless? ;^) — ~Philip "Multiculturalism and coercive tolerance of bizarre lifestyles describes a social experiment, not a civilization." –Paul Gottfried
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well, I work as Toyota service advisor, and in the past, as a petroleum > sales rep for the largest Valvoline distributor in the US. I was also the > training director for a chain of 15 quick lubes. > Don’t assume all service advisors are clueless. > Jon > > > Their 0W-20 or 5W-30? > > If it was my car, I’d use 5w-30. I don’t know if it’s closer to 5w-20 > than > > 0w-20, but I’d rather give my engine too much top end protection than > too > > little. > > Cheers, > > Pete > These oils have the same viscosity at the specified temperature! > 0W-? at -30C > 5W-? at -25C > Not a whole lot of difference, and pretty meaningless during summer. > Service advisors have 2 words wrong in their job title. > Oil experts? NOT! > You can find usually intelligent oil discussions at: > http://theoildrop.server101.com > They tended to be quite skeptical about the 0W- oils, but analysis is > proving that they actually are quite good with a minimal amount of wear > metals. So much for too thin! > The "20" part is more in between 20 & 30 then close to 20. Since they > don’t rate the second number in increments of 5, 20 is the closer number. > They also tend to have a good dose of molybdenum in them. > — > To Email me, change snot to hot
Response:
> As an aside, now that Mobil markets M1 0W-30, I wonder how long they > will continue making 5W-30? Why will people still want the extra > viscosity of 5W during the winter time?
The smaller the viscosity spread, the more shear-stable the oil. That’s why Mobil will continue to make 5w-30 and 10w-30 for those who don’t live in Alaska. Cheers, Pete
Response:
>Their 0W-20 or 5W-30? >The reason I ask is because, my 24,000KM (15,000miles) service for my >SUV is due soon and want to start using synthetic oil, but since the >dealer I usually go to has expressed their reluctance in using a grade >of oil other than 5W-20, even if fully synthetic (Mobil 1), I decided >to call all the other dealers in town (3 others). >They’re letting me use Mobil 1’s oil, but ALL recommended me to use >5W-30, instead of 0W-20. I was rather surprised since I thought that >Mobil 1’s 0W-20 grade was the one that most closely resembled the lube >characteristics of the 5W-20. The general consensus from the service >advisors was that Mobil 1’s 0W-20 would be "too light".
They could claim that 0W-20 caused any internal damage and void the warranty – and that’s a huge concern to you. The 5W-30 synthetic is so good at low-temperature duty (down into the -10 and -20 F area) that you only need to drop to the 0W-20 when it gets into the -50 F range – and there are a whole raft of other concerns besides oil when you try to make a car start reliably at those extreme cold temperatures. >But it was my understanding that the only thing different between >0W-20 and 5W-20 is the "winter" temperature viscosity set out by the >SAE and the viscosity at operating temp is the same. Whereas, it’s >the vise versa between 5W-20 and 5W-30.
If the car calls for a 5W-20 dinosaur oil, use the 5W-30 Mobil1 synthetic. It provides the minimum viscosity required by your warranty, and even though the hot viscosity rating is "heavier" it will still be physically thinner and provide better lubricating and energy efficiency qualities. And it’s easier to buy the 5W-30 and 10W-30 formulas anywhere. –<< Bruce >>– — Bruce L. Bergman, POB 394, Woodland Hills CA 91365, USA Electrician, Westend Electric (#726700) Agoura, CA WARNING: UCE Spam E-mail is not welcome here. I report violators. SpamBlock In Use – Remove the "Python" with a "net" to E-Mail.
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> > Their 0W-20 or 5W-30? > If it was my car, I’d use 5w-30. I don’t know if it’s closer to 5w-20 than > 0w-20, but I’d rather give my engine too much top end protection than too > little. > Cheers, > Pete
These oils have the same viscosity at the specified temperature! 0W-? at -30C 5W-? at -25C Not a whole lot of difference, and pretty meaningless during summer. Service advisors have 2 words wrong in their job title. Oil experts? NOT! You can find usually intelligent oil discussions at: http://theoildrop.server101.com They tended to be quite skeptical about the 0W- oils, but analysis is proving that they actually are quite good with a minimal amount of wear metals. So much for too thin! The "20" part is more in between 20 & 30 then close to 20. Since they don’t rate the second number in increments of 5, 20 is the closer number. They also tend to have a good dose of molybdenum in them. — To Email me, change snot to hot
Response:
Well, I work as Toyota service advisor, and in the past, as a petroleum sales rep for the largest Valvoline distributor in the US. I was also the training director for a chain of 15 quick lubes. Don’t assume all service advisors are clueless. Jon
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Their 0W-20 or 5W-30? > If it was my car, I’d use 5w-30. I don’t know if it’s closer to 5w-20 than > 0w-20, but I’d rather give my engine too much top end protection than too > little. > Cheers, > Pete > These oils have the same viscosity at the specified temperature! > 0W-? at -30C > 5W-? at -25C > Not a whole lot of difference, and pretty meaningless during summer. > Service advisors have 2 words wrong in their job title. > Oil experts? NOT! > You can find usually intelligent oil discussions at: > http://theoildrop.server101.com > They tended to be quite skeptical about the 0W- oils, but analysis is > proving that they actually are quite good with a minimal amount of wear > metals. So much for too thin! > The "20" part is more in between 20 & 30 then close to 20. Since they > don’t rate the second number in increments of 5, 20 is the closer number. > They also tend to have a good dose of molybdenum in them. > — > To Email me, change snot to hot
Response:
> Their 0W-20 or 5W-30?
If it was my car, I’d use 5w-30. I don’t know if it’s closer to 5w-20 than 0w-20, but I’d rather give my engine too much top end protection than too little. Cheers, Pete
Response:
Their 0W-20 or 5W-30? The reason I ask is because, my 24,000KM (15,000miles) service for my SUV is due soon and want to start using synthetic oil, but since the dealer I usually go to has expressed their reluctance in using a grade of oil other than 5W-20, even if fully synthetic (Mobil 1), I decided to call all the other dealers in town (3 others). They’re letting me use Mobil 1’s oil, but ALL recommended me to use 5W-30, instead of 0W-20. I was rather surprised since I thought that Mobil 1’s 0W-20 grade was the one that most closely resembled the lube characteristics of the 5W-20. The general consensus from the service advisors was that Mobil 1’s 0W-20 would be "too light". But it was my understanding that the only thing different between 0W-20 and 5W-20 is the "winter" temperature viscosity set out by the SAE and the viscosity at operating temp is the same. Whereas, it’s the vise versa between 5W-20 and 5W-30. I’m really confused here. It’s all Mobil 1’s fault. They should’ve came out with a 5W-20 as well. But are all the service advisors/technicians I spoke with misinformed or do I just have the incorrect understanding of the oil grade designation? I do apologize for beating an old horse, but I’m just confused now after having spoken with those service advisors/technicians.
Response:
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