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> I dont mean uncomfortable in the sense of cramped, but in the sense of > poor, low seats. In Europe, you get a comfortable a bucket chair; in > America, you get a lousy lounging chair…
I *like* low seats… but your point is well taken. A few years ago I rode in a Grand Am (or was it a Grand Prix? I forget) that a friend of mine had rented, and after two hours in that car my back was literally screaming for mercy. I could barely walk when I got out of that car. Granted, I have a bad back and I know it, but should pain really be a part of the driving experience? I don’t have any such problems in any of the cars I actually own (three VW’s and two Studebakers) Oddly enough, the buckets in my ‘62 Stude (which is definitely an American car – proudly made in South Bend, Indiana) are quite comfortable. I drove an old Avanti back from Carlisle (to Annapolis) a while back – I believe the seats in it were out of a ’60s Mustang (they weren’t stock. Avanti seats also fall into the category of marginally acceptable for long trips.) No problems at all. Have we forgotten how to make decent seats? (or perhaps springs and horsehair are more expensive than cheap molded foam, and the seats in new cars are forced to be mediocre by the bean counters.) Let’s not even go into lack of lateral support… Granted none of my old cars have really great lateral support, but VW had decent seats 20+ years ago, and quality aftermarket seats (Recaro, etc.) have been available for at least that long. You’d think American auto manufacturers could have come out with an acceptable knockoff by now.. nate
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< a) they are too big outside; > Some are. Is the Dodge Neon too big for your tastes? Orlando says: A Dodge Neon would be too big for an entry level car in Europe, and certainly would be in the size class of a BMW 3 series… It would NOT sell in Europe, since its trunk, unlike a hatchback, doesnt have that much usable capacity… Aron says: A) Neons aren’t big as far as American cars go. <b) they are too damned uncomfortable inside; > The most uncomfortable car I ever owned was an Audi 100LS. Come to think of it, the entire car was an unreliable piece of shit. I understand Audi has learned how to build a car, but I never felt a need to try another one. Orlando says: I dont mean uncomfortable in the sense of cramped, but in the sense of poor, low seats. In Europe, you get a comfortable a bucket chair; in America, you get a lousy lounging chair… Aron says: B) The seats are like an assemblance of foam rubber blocks each wrapped in a T-shirt. Orlando, you think we’ve got lousy lounging chairs in our cars? I guess you haven’t seen the ones with a reclining couch and (tada!) a Column shifter! Isn’t that sporty? Isn’t that luxurious? <c) they are shoddily made; > See above. Orlando says: When you sit in an entry level American car, you feel POOR, like I was told once regarding a lousy Japanese Toyota Tercel: You get what you pay for… Aron says: C) The only thing more shoddy than an American car is a cheap American car. An "entry level" American car can definitely make you feel poor. I think that is part of how they encourage people to buy the "up class" ones for "a little" more (and borrow to do it). Who really wants to sit on DATTCO bus seats? They try to make up for it by raising the horsepower (killowatts or the euro guys, I guess) but after looking under the hood I wonder if it will last the year. <d) they don’t have a character; > No, American cars are intended to run, not amuse you with their antics. British cars had character; Lucas, the Prince of Darkness, was always good for breaking up the monotony. I’ll admit I want to get a Mini after the feeding frenzy dies down. Orlando says: American cars are meant to take you from point A to point B, giving you all the while the feeling that you have being in your living room… Aron says: D) If you consider the GM idea of stapling plastic panels to the outside to be character I’ll take a neon. It’s not to showy not bland to the point of nausea. I’m not sure what you guys mean about American cars being made to run and get you from point A to point B. Maybe they sell you guys better products. Around here people were fleaing to foreign cars (before the SUV craze) because of reliability issues and poor build quality. You don’t want to hear rattles when you close the door of the show room car. You don’t want a car that is fine on the lot and then has all kinds of noises within the year. And the longevity record is less than one should expect from car companies in the business for 100+ years and are extremely wealthy. Just as an example, I have a ‘93 Mercury Sable ready for its 3rd engine. I could count on one hand the number of times I’ve floored it. It was well maintained. It has 123,000 miles on it. My mother’s Lumina has needed thousands of dollars in air conditioner repair. A lot of GM 3.1L engines blow intake manifold gaskets. The Ford 3.8L eat head gaskets for lunch. It goes on and on. <e) they don’t have a sunroof; > Shrug. I’ll get my torch and make you a frigging sunroof. How big did you want it? Orlando says: I want it as big as the sunroof in the French cars: big, simple canvas roof… Unlike a convertible, they are safer and give you more privacy… <g) they are too boring to drive; > I’ll agree. Any cage is boring. If I want interesting, I take one of the bikes. Orlando says: Me too… However, one of those Minis must be fun to drive too… Aron says: G) The neon isn’t boring compared to the average American car. The Mini does seem like a fun car. <h) they are stupid automatic; > Last automatic I bought was in 1982. Yeah, it was stupid, and so was the air conditioner, but the price was right. Orlando says: Stick shifts are not only more fun, but more fuel efficient as well… Aron says: H) A good automatic will shift faster than you. It depends on what kind of driving you want to do. They are safer for most people and certainly more convenient. I like the fuel savings of a manual. Automatics also usually cost more if they are an option on a car and then they’ll cost more on repair because when they go they have to be rebuilt, which is about 150,000 miles from my experience. Perhaps with the CVTs they’ll be able to reasonably install service hatches. Now, on the neon specifically, they offer a manual here. At least they did when I drove a new one this year. I would buy the manual. <i) they are too complicated; > Now, there you might have a point. They are all too complicated. Of course, the first time I realized you could completely disable a car by inadventantly hitting the computer under the passenger seat was in a seventies Volvo. Orlando says: Volvo is NOT a popular car in Europe… Most popular cars in Europe, however, are meant to be simpler thant their American counterparts… (which are meant to be complicated, thus meant to generate more business…) Aron says: I) A neon is complicated? That is a bewildering perspective. <j) they are too thirsty on gas > It is part of the plan; use up all that polluting petroleum so the world will have to move on to clean energy sources. Orlando says: The only catch being that we are going to be deep in pollution, beyond any hope, before we move on to cleaner energy sources… Aron says: J) That is what I fear. Around here the manual neon get just over 30 miles per gallon, I believe, which is fairly respectable. "What worries me is not the violence of the few, but the indifference of the many" "Lo que a mi me preocupa no es la violencia de unos pocos, sino la indiferencia de los muchos" M.L. King Jr. http://www.webspawner.com/users/donquijote/index.html http://www.webspawner.com/users/donquijote1/index.html http://www.webspawner.com/users/donquijote2/index.html http://www.webspawner.com/users/donquijote3/index.html http://www.webspawner.com/users/donquijote4/index.html http://www.webspawner.com/users/donquijote5/index.html http://www.webspawner.com/users/donquijote6/index.html http://www.webspawner.com/users/donquijote7/index.html http://www.webspawner.com/users/donquijote8/index.html http://www.webspawner.com/users/donquijote9/index.html http://psrdc.org
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but this experiment might most probably be non-repeatable! — Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server – http://www.Mailgate.ORG 