washingtonpost.com Bush’s Popularity Reaches New Low 58 Percent in Poll Question His Integrity By Richard Morin and Dan Balz Washington Post Staff Writers Friday, November 4, 2005; A01 For the first time in his presidency a majority of Americans question the integrity of President Bush, and growing doubts about his leadership have left him with record negative ratings on the economy, Iraq and even the war on terrorism, a new Washington Post-ABC News poll shows. On almost every key measure of presidential character and performance, the survey found that Bush has never been less popular with the American people. Currently 39 percent approve of the job he is doing as president, while 60 percent disapprove of his performance in office — the highest level of disapproval ever recorded for Bush in Post-ABC polls. Virtually the only possible bright spot for Bush in the survey was generally favorable, if not quite enthusiastic, early reaction to his latest Supreme Court nominee, Samuel A. Alito Jr. Half of Americans say Alito should be confirmed by the Senate, and less than a third view him as too conservative, the poll found. Overall, the survey underscores how several pillars of Bush’s presidency have begun to crumble under the combined weight of events and White House mistakes. Bush’s approval ratings have been in decline for months, but on issues of personal trust, honesty and values, Bush has suffered some of his most notable declines. Moreover, Bush has always retained majority support on his handling of the U.S. campaign against terrorism — until now, when 51 percent have registered disapproval. The CIA leak case has apparently contributed to a withering decline in how Americans view Bush personally. The survey found that 40 percent now view him as honest and trustworthy — a 13 percentage point drop in the past 18 months. Nearly 6 in 10 — 58 percent — said they have doubts about Bush’s honesty, the first time in his presidency that more than half the country has questioned his personal integrity. The indictment Friday of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Cheney’s former chief of staff, in the CIA leak case added to the burden of an administration already reeling from a failed Supreme Court nomination, public dissatisfaction with the economy and continued bloodshed in Iraq. According to the survey, 52 percent say the charges against Libby signal the presence of deeper ethical wrongdoing in the administration. Half believe White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove, the president’s top political hand, also did something wrong in the case — about 6 in 10 say Rove should resign. Beyond the leak case, Americans give the administration low scores on ethics, according to the survey, with 67 percent rating the administration negatively on handling ethical matters, while just 32 percent give the administration positive marks. Four in 10 — 43 percent — say the level of ethics and honesty in the federal government has fallen during Bush’s presidency, while 17 percent say it has risen. Faced with its cascade of recent setbacks, the White House is hoping the latest court nomination can rally disaffected conservatives and score the president a victory akin to the one he enjoyed in the nomination of Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. Alito begins the confirmation process with the support of 49 percent of the public, while 29 percent say he should not be confirmed, the poll found. One in 5 Americans — 22 percent — did not yet know enough about him to make a judgment. The dissatisfaction with Bush flows in part out of broad concerns about the overall direction of the country. Nearly 7 in 10 — 68 percent — believe the country is seriously off course, while only 30 percent are optimistic, the lowest level in more than nine years. Only 3 in 10 express high levels of confidence in Bush, while half say they have little or no confidence in this administration. Just 35 percent of those surveyed rated the economy as either excellent or good, with 65 percent describing it as not so good or poor. Although the government reported last week that gross domestic product rose 3.8 percent in the last quarter, despite the effects of Hurricane Katrina, 29 percent of those surveyed said they regard the economy as poor, the highest recorded during Bush’s presidency. Attitudes toward Bush are sharply polarized by party, as they have been throughout his presidency. Almost 8 in 10 — 78 percent — of Republicans support the president, while just 11 percent of Democrats rate him positively. Republicans long have been the key to Bush’s overall strength, but Bush has suffered some defections since the beginning of the year, when 91 percent approved of the way he was handling his job. Among independents, Bush’s approval has plummeted since the beginning of the year. In the latest poll, 33 percent of independents approved of his performance, while 66 percent disapproved. In January, independents were evenly divided, with 49 percent approving and an equal percentage disapproving. The intensity of Bush’s support has changed since his reelection a year ago, with opponents deepening their hostility toward the administration. In the latest survey, 47 percent said they strongly disapprove of the way he was performing in office, compared with 35 percent who expressed strong disapproval in January. At the same time, the percentage who say they strongly approve of his performance has fallen from 33 percent last January to 20 percent today. Iraq remains a significant drag on Bush’s presidency, with dissatisfaction over the situation there continuing to grow and with suspicion rising over whether administration officials misled the country in the run-up to the invasion more than two years ago. Nearly two-thirds disapprove of the way Bush is handling the situation there, while barely a third approve, a new low. Six in 10 now believe the United States was wrong to invade Iraq, a seven-point increase in just over two months, with almost half the country saying they strongly believe it was wrong. About 3 in 4 — 73 percent — say there have been an unacceptable level of casualties in Iraq. More than half — 52 percent — say the war with Iraq has not contributed to the long-term security of the United States. The same percentage — 52 percent — says the United States should keep its military forces in Iraq until civil order is restored, and only about 1 in 5 — 18 percent — say the United States should withdraw its forces immediately. In the week after U.S. deaths in Iraq passed the 2,000 mark, a majority of those surveyed — 55 percent — said the United States is not making significant progress toward stabilizing the country. The war has taken a toll on the administration’s credibility: A clear majority — 55 percent — now says the administration deliberately misled the country in making its case for war with Iraq — a conflict that an even larger majority say is not worth the cost. The president’s handling of terrorism was widely regarded among strategists as the key to his winning a second term last year. But questions about Bush’s effectiveness on other fronts have also depreciated this asset. His 48 percent approval now compares with 61 percent approval on this issue at the time of his second inauguration, down from a 2004 high of 66 percent. Bush also set new lows in the latest Post-ABC News poll for his management of the economy, where disapproval topped 60 percent for the first time in his presidency. And 6 in 10 are critical of the way Bush is dealing with health care — a double-digit increase since March. On gasoline prices, Bush’s numbers have increased slightly over the past two months but still remain highly negative, with just 26 percent rating him positively. The survey suggests a rapidly widening gulf between Bush and the American people. Two in 3 say Bush does not understand the problems of people like them, a 10 percentage point increase since January. Nearly 6 in 10 — 58 percent — doubt Bush shares their values, while 40 percent say he does, another new low for this president. For the first time since he took office, fewer than half — 47 percent — said Bush is a strong leader, and Americans divided equally over whether Bush can be trusted in a crisis. Told of the poll results, Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman said Bush will rally support through such issues as education reform, changes to the tax code, and a new energy strategy to show the public that he "will continue to push for changes in our government to serve the American people." A total of 1,202 randomly selected adults were interviewed Oct. 30-Nov. 2 for this survey. Margin of sampling error for the overall results is plus or minus three percentage points. _____ Assistant polling director Claudia Deane contributed to this report.

washingtonpost.com Bush’s Popularity Reaches New Low 58 Percent in Poll Question His Integrity By Richard Morin and Dan Balz Washington Post Staff Writers Friday, November 4, 2005; A01 For the first time in his presidency a majority of Americans question the integrity of President Bush, and growing doubts about his leadership have left him with record negative ratings on the economy, Iraq and even the war on terrorism, a new Washington Post-ABC News poll shows. On almost every key measure of presidential character and performance, the survey found that Bush has never been less popular with the American people. Currently 39 percent approve of the job he is doing as president, while 60 percent disapprove of his performance in office — the highest level of disapproval ever recorded for Bush in Post-ABC polls. Virtually the only possible bright spot for Bush in the survey was generally favorable, if not quite enthusiastic, early reaction to his latest Supreme Court nominee, Samuel A. Alito Jr. Half of Americans say Alito should be confirmed by the Senate, and less than a third view him as too conservative, the poll found. Overall, the survey underscores how several pillars of Bush’s presidency have begun to crumble under the combined weight of events and White House mistakes. Bush’s approval ratings have been in decline for months, but on issues of personal trust, honesty and values, Bush has suffered some of his most notable declines. Moreover, Bush has always retained majority support on his handling of the U.S. campaign against terrorism — until now, when 51 percent have registered disapproval. The CIA leak case has apparently contributed to a withering decline in how Americans view Bush personally. The survey found that 40 percent now view him as honest and trustworthy — a 13 percentage point drop in the past 18 months. Nearly 6 in 10 — 58 percent — said they have doubts about Bush’s honesty, the first time in his presidency that more than half the country has questioned his personal integrity. The indictment Friday of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Cheney’s former chief of staff, in the CIA leak case added to the burden of an administration already reeling from a failed Supreme Court nomination, public dissatisfaction with the economy and continued bloodshed in Iraq. According to the survey, 52 percent say the charges against Libby signal the presence of deeper ethical wrongdoing in the administration. Half believe White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove, the president’s top political hand, also did something wrong in the case — about 6 in 10 say Rove should resign. Beyond the leak case, Americans give the administration low scores on ethics, according to the survey, with 67 percent rating the administration negatively on handling ethical matters, while just 32 percent give the administration positive marks. Four in 10 — 43 percent — say the level of ethics and honesty in the federal government has fallen during Bush’s presidency, while 17 percent say it has risen. Faced with its cascade of recent setbacks, the White House is hoping the latest court nomination can rally disaffected conservatives and score the president a victory akin to the one he enjoyed in the nomination of Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. Alito begins the confirmation process with the support of 49 percent of the public, while 29 percent say he should not be confirmed, the poll found. One in 5 Americans — 22 percent — did not yet know enough about him to make a judgment. The dissatisfaction with Bush flows in part out of broad concerns about the overall direction of the country. Nearly 7 in 10 — 68 percent — believe the country is seriously off course, while only 30 percent are optimistic, the lowest level in more than nine years. Only 3 in 10 express high levels of confidence in Bush, while half say they have little or no confidence in this administration. Just 35 percent of those surveyed rated the economy as either excellent or good, with 65 percent describing it as not so good or poor. Although the government reported last week that gross domestic product rose 3.8 percent in the last quarter, despite the effects of Hurricane Katrina, 29 percent of those surveyed said they regard the economy as poor, the highest recorded during Bush’s presidency. Attitudes toward Bush are sharply polarized by party, as they have been throughout his presidency. Almost 8 in 10 — 78 percent — of Republicans support the president, while just 11 percent of Democrats rate him positively. Republicans long have been the key to Bush’s overall strength, but Bush has suffered some defections since the beginning of the year, when 91 percent approved of the way he was handling his job. Among independents, Bush’s approval has plummeted since the beginning of the year. In the latest poll, 33 percent of independents approved of his performance, while 66 percent disapproved. In January, independents were evenly divided, with 49 percent approving and an equal percentage disapproving. The intensity of Bush’s support has changed since his reelection a year ago, with opponents deepening their hostility toward the administration. In the latest survey, 47 percent said they strongly disapprove of the way he was performing in office, compared with 35 percent who expressed strong disapproval in January. At the same time, the percentage who say they strongly approve of his performance has fallen from 33 percent last January to 20 percent today. Iraq remains a significant drag on Bush’s presidency, with dissatisfaction over the situation there continuing to grow and with suspicion rising over whether administration officials misled the country in the run-up to the invasion more than two years ago. Nearly two-thirds disapprove of the way Bush is handling the situation there, while barely a third approve, a new low. Six in 10 now believe the United States was wrong to invade Iraq, a seven-point increase in just over two months, with almost half the country saying they strongly believe it was wrong. About 3 in 4 — 73 percent — say there have been an unacceptable level of casualties in Iraq. More than half — 52 percent — say the war with Iraq has not contributed to the long-term security of the United States. The same percentage — 52 percent — says the United States should keep its military forces in Iraq until civil order is restored, and only about 1 in 5 — 18 percent — say the United States should withdraw its forces immediately. In the week after U.S. deaths in Iraq passed the 2,000 mark, a majority of those surveyed — 55 percent — said the United States is not making significant progress toward stabilizing the country. The war has taken a toll on the administration’s credibility: A clear majority — 55 percent — now says the administration deliberately misled the country in making its case for war with Iraq — a conflict that an even larger majority say is not worth the cost. The president’s handling of terrorism was widely regarded among strategists as the key to his winning a second term last year. But questions about Bush’s effectiveness on other fronts have also depreciated this asset. His 48 percent approval now compares with 61 percent approval on this issue at the time of his second inauguration, down from a 2004 high of 66 percent. Bush also set new lows in the latest Post-ABC News poll for his management of the economy, where disapproval topped 60 percent for the first time in his presidency. And 6 in 10 are critical of the way Bush is dealing with health care — a double-digit increase since March. On gasoline prices, Bush’s numbers have increased slightly over the past two months but still remain highly negative, with just 26 percent rating him positively. The survey suggests a rapidly widening gulf between Bush and the American people. Two in 3 say Bush does not understand the problems of people like them, a 10 percentage point increase since January. Nearly 6 in 10 — 58 percent — doubt Bush shares their values, while 40 percent say he does, another new low for this president. For the first time since he took office, fewer than half — 47 percent — said Bush is a strong leader, and Americans divided equally over whether Bush can be trusted in a crisis. Told of the poll results, Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman said Bush will rally support through such issues as education reform, changes to the tax code, and a new energy strategy to show the public that he "will continue to push for changes in our government to serve the American people." A total of 1,202 randomly selected adults were interviewed Oct. 30-Nov. 2 for this survey. Margin of sampling error for the overall results is plus or minus three percentage points. _____ Assistant polling director Claudia Deane contributed to this report.

By DAVID BARBOZA and ANDREW ROSS SORKIN Published: June 23, 2005 SHANGHAI, Thursday, June 23 – One of China’s largest state-controlled oil companies made a $18.5 billion unsolicited bid Thursday for Unocal, signaling the first big takeover battle by a Chinese company for an American corporation. The bold bid, by the China National Offshore Oil Corporation ( CNOOC), may be a watershed in Chinese corporate behavior, and it demonstrates the increasing influence on Asia of Wall Street’s bare-knuckled takeover tactics. Skip to next paragraph Associated Press Seventy-three percent of Unocal’s natural gas reserves are in Asia; this platform is in the Gulf of Thailand. The offer is also the latest symbol of China’s growing economic power and of the soaring ambitions of its corporate giants, particularly when it comes to the energy resources it needs desperately to continue feeding its rapid growth. CNOOC’s bid, which comes two months after Unocal agreed to be sold to Chevron, the American energy giant, for $16.4 billion, is expected to incite a potentially costly bidding war over the California-based Unocal, a large independent oil company. CNOOC said its offer represents a premium of about $1.5 billion over the value of Unocal’s deal with Chevron after a $500 million breakup fee. Moreover, the effort is likely to provoke a fierce debate in Washington about the nation’s trade policies with China and the role of the two governments in the growing trend of deal making between companies in the countries. This week, a consortium of investors led by the Haier Group, one of China’s biggest companies, moved to acquire the Maytag Corporation, the American appliance maker, for about $1.3 billion, surpassing a bid from a group of American investors. Last month, Lenovo, China’s largest computer maker, completed its $1.75 billion deal for I.B.M.’s personal computer business, creating the world’s third-largest computer maker after Dell and Hewlett-Packard. After years of attracting billions in foreign investment and virtually turning itself into the world’s largest factory floor, China appears to be nurturing the growth of its own corporate giants into beacons of capitalism. China wants to be a player on the world stage, and it is eager to have its own energy resources, its own multinational corporations and its own dazzling corporate names. And some of China’s biggest companies are now on the hunt, trying to snap up global treasures. "If there’s an asset up for sale anywhere in the world, people are looking to China, particularly if there’s a manufacturing element involved," said Colin Banfield, who runs the mergers and acquisitions practice at Credit Suisse First Boston in Asia. "And if these two deals go through this year, no one is going to doubt the credibility of the Chinese corporates when it comes to M & A." The deal making and bidding wars are all the more remarkable because they involve Chinese companies taking on American multinationals in a series of transactions certain to be a boon for Western lawyers and investment bankers, many of whom have been betting hundreds of millions of dollars on China’s rise. Indeed, CNOOC is being advised by an army of bankers from Goldman Sachs, J. P. Morgan Chase and N M Rothschild & Sons of Britain. In a response, Unocal said in a statement that its board would evaluate the offer, but that its recommendation of the deal with Chevron "remains in effect." CNOOC’s bid faces an uphill battle, with hurdles that probably rise above those usually confronting a corporate bidder. Already, lawmakers in Washington are questioning whether the Bush administration should intervene to block the bid for Unocal, which was founded in 1890 as the Union Oil Company of California. Two Republican representatives from California, Richard W. Pombo and Duncan Hunter, wrote a letter last week to President Bush, after speculation concerning the deal arose, urging that the transaction be scrutinized on the grounds of national security.

critical to understand the implications for American interests and most especially, the threat posed by China’s governmental pursuit of world energy resources. The United States increasingly needs to view meeting its energy requirements within the context of our foreign policy, national security and economic security agenda." Energy Secretary Samuel W. Bodman said at a meeting of the National Petroleum Council late Wednesday that the government’s review of the deal would be "truly a complex matter," according to Reuters. In Beijing, Liu Jianchao, a spokesman for the Foreign Ministry, told reporters on Tuesday that "this is a corporate issue," according to Bloomberg News. "I can’t comment on this individual case," Mr. Liu said, "but I can say we encourage the U.S. to allow normal trade relations to take place without political interference." TCL, a Chinese company that began by making cassette tapes in 1981, is suddenly the world’s biggest television set maker, after its acquisition last July of the television business of Thomson of France, which owned the old RCA brand. Chinese companies still have a long way to go to become global giants that can compete head-to-head with Toyota, Siemens or General Electric. Most of the China deals are small in value – about $1 billion to $2 billion – when compared with big American or European deals. Whether CNOOC’s bid will succeed on it merits is unclear. It is interested in Unocal, once known for its 76 brand, less for its exploration and production in North America than for its huge reserves in Asia. Twenty-seven percent of Unocal’s proven oil reserves and 73 percent of its proven natural gas reserves are in Asia, according to Merrill Lynch. To succeed, CNOOC will have to persuade Unocal’s shareholders to vote against their deal with Chevron. The new deal would then face a shareholder vote. Even though CNOOC’s offer is worth $1.5 billion more than Chevron’s, some shareholders could still decide that the regulatory review process and the time required to complete a deal with CNOOC would pose too great a risk, given the size of the offer. Chevron, which could raise its bid to counter CNOOC, is racing to complete its deal and submit it to a shareholder vote as early as August. The company made no specific comment on the Chinese offer. CNOOC’s all-cash offer values Unocal at $67 a share. Chevron’s cash and stock offer values Unocal at $61.26 a share, based on Chevron’s closing price on Wednesday of $58.27 a share. Shares of Unocal jumped 2.2 percent, to $64.85, as investors anticipated CNOOC’s higher bid. In CNOOC’s letter to Unocal, it went to great lengths to say that its bid was friendly, despite being unsolicited. "This friendly, all-cash proposal is a superior offer for Unocal shareholders," wrote CNOOC’s chairman and chief executive, Fu Chengyu. Trying to assuage concerns of some in Washington, CNOOC pledged to continue Unocal’s practice of selling all of the oil and gas produced in the United States back to customers in the United States. The company also said it would retain substantially all of Unocal’s employees in the United States.

Response:

Turdgurglers: CNOOC is being advised by an army of bankers from; Goldman Sachs, J. P. Morgan Chase and N M Rothschild & Sons of Britain. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> By DAVID BARBOZA > and ANDREW ROSS SORKIN > Published: June 23, 2005 > SHANGHAI, Thursday, June 23 – One of China’s largest state-controlled > oil companies made a $18.5 billion unsolicited bid Thursday for Unocal, > signaling the first big takeover battle by a Chinese company for an > American corporation. > The bold bid, by the China National Offshore Oil Corporation ( CNOOC), > may be a watershed in Chinese corporate behavior, and it demonstrates > the increasing influence on Asia of Wall Street’s bare-knuckled takeover > tactics. > Seventy-three percent of Unocal’s natural gas reserves are in Asia; this > platform is in the Gulf of Thailand. > The offer is also the latest symbol of China’s growing economic power > and of the soaring ambitions of its corporate giants, particularly when > it comes to the energy resources it needs desperately to continue > feeding its rapid growth. > CNOOC’s bid, which comes two months after Unocal agreed to be sold to > Chevron, the American energy giant, for $16.4 billion, is expected to > incite a potentially costly bidding war over the California-based > Unocal, a large independent oil company. CNOOC said its offer represents > a premium of about $1.5 billion over the value of Unocal’s deal with > Chevron after a $500 million breakup fee. > Moreover, the effort is likely to provoke a fierce debate in Washington > about the nation’s trade policies with China and the role of the two > governments in the growing trend of deal making between companies in the > countries. > This week, a consortium of investors led by the Haier Group, one of > China’s biggest companies, moved to acquire the Maytag Corporation, the > American appliance maker, for about $1.3 billion, surpassing a bid from > a group of American investors. > Last month, Lenovo, China’s largest computer maker, completed its $1.75 > billion deal for I.B.M.’s personal computer business, creating the > world’s third-largest computer maker after Dell and Hewlett-Packard. > After years of attracting billions in foreign investment and virtually > turning itself into the world’s largest factory floor, China appears to > be nurturing the growth of its own corporate giants into beacons of > capitalism. China wants to be a player on the world stage, and it is > eager to have its own energy resources, its own multinational > corporations and its own dazzling corporate names. > And some of China’s biggest companies are now on the hunt, trying to > snap up global treasures. > "If there’s an asset up for sale anywhere in the world, people are > looking to China, particularly if there’s a manufacturing element > involved," said Colin Banfield, who runs the mergers and acquisitions > practice at Credit Suisse First Boston in Asia. "And if these two deals > go through this year, no one is going to doubt the credibility of the > Chinese corporates when it comes to M & A." > The deal making and bidding wars are all the more remarkable because > they involve Chinese companies taking on American multinationals in a > series of transactions certain to be a boon for Western lawyers and > investment bankers, many of whom have been betting hundreds of millions > of dollars on China’s rise. > Indeed, CNOOC is being advised by an army of bankers from Goldman Sachs, > J. P. Morgan Chase and N M Rothschild & Sons of Britain. > In a response, Unocal said in a statement that its board would evaluate > the offer, but that its recommendation of the deal with Chevron "remains > in effect." > CNOOC’s bid faces an uphill battle, with hurdles that probably rise > above those usually confronting a corporate bidder. Already, lawmakers > in Washington are questioning whether the Bush administration should > intervene to block the bid for Unocal, which was founded in 1890 as the > Union Oil Company of California. > Two Republican representatives from California, Richard W. Pombo and > Duncan Hunter, wrote a letter last week to President Bush, after > speculation concerning the deal arose, urging that the transaction be > scrutinized on the grounds of national security. > critical to understand the implications for American interests and most > especially, the threat posed by China’s governmental pursuit of world > energy resources. The United States increasingly needs to view meeting > its energy requirements within the context of our foreign policy, > national security and economic security agenda." > Energy Secretary Samuel W. Bodman said at a meeting of the National > Petroleum Council late Wednesday that the government’s review of the > deal would be "truly a complex matter," according to Reuters. > In Beijing, Liu Jianchao, a spokesman for the Foreign Ministry, told > reporters on Tuesday that "this is a corporate issue," according to > Bloomberg News. "I can’t comment on this individual case," Mr. Liu said, > "but I can say we encourage the U.S. to allow normal trade relations to > take place without political interference." > TCL, a Chinese company that began by making cassette tapes in 1981, is > suddenly the world’s biggest television set maker, after its acquisition > last July of the television business of Thomson of France, which owned > the old RCA brand. > Chinese companies still have a long way to go to become global giants > that can compete head-to-head with Toyota, Siemens or General Electric. > Most of the China deals are small in value – about $1 billion to $2 > billion – when compared with big American or European deals. > Whether CNOOC’s bid will succeed on it merits is unclear. It is > interested in Unocal, once known for its 76 brand, less for its > exploration and production in North America than for its huge reserves > in Asia. Twenty-seven percent of Unocal’s proven oil reserves and 73 > percent of its proven natural gas reserves are in Asia, according to > Merrill Lynch. > To succeed, CNOOC will have to persuade Unocal’s shareholders to vote > against their deal with Chevron. The new deal would then face a > shareholder vote. > Even though CNOOC’s offer is worth $1.5 billion more than Chevron’s, > some shareholders could still decide that the regulatory review process > and the time required to complete a deal with CNOOC would pose too great > a risk, given the size of the offer. > Chevron, which could raise its bid to counter CNOOC, is racing to > complete its deal and submit it to a shareholder vote as early as > August. The company made no specific comment on the Chinese offer. > CNOOC’s all-cash offer values Unocal at $67 a share. Chevron’s cash and > stock offer values Unocal at $61.26 a share, based on Chevron’s closing > price on Wednesday of $58.27 a share. Shares of Unocal jumped 2.2 > percent, to $64.85, as investors anticipated CNOOC’s higher bid. > In CNOOC’s letter to Unocal, it went to great lengths to say that its > bid was friendly, despite being unsolicited. "This friendly, all-cash > proposal is a superior offer for Unocal shareholders," wrote CNOOC’s > chairman and chief executive, Fu Chengyu. > Trying to assuage concerns of some in Washington, CNOOC pledged to > continue Unocal’s practice of selling all of the oil and gas produced in > the United States back to customers in the United States. The company > also said it would retain substantially all of Unocal’s employees in the > United States.

Response:

Racist!!! Racism SUCKS!!! ALWAYS!!!

Response:

The obvious should be understated sonny- always. Hey, how’s the manhole-cover Strat holding up to the dust? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I SUCK!!! ALWAYS!!!

Response:

> The obvious should be understated sonny- always. Hey, how’s the > manhole-cover Strat holding up to the dust? > I SUCK!!! ALWAYS!!!

MAJOR loser! not worth the time for a real response!

Response:

> > The obvious should be understated sonny- always. Hey, how’s the > manhole-cover Strat holding up to the dust? >> I SUCK!!! ALWAYS!!! > MAJOR loser! not worth the time for a real response!

notice how language carries hidden cultural meaning.

Response:

C’mon potbelly, howzat Strat ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The obvious should be understated sonny- always. Hey, how’s the manhole-cover Strat holding up to the dust? >>I SUCK!!! ALWAYS!!!

Response:

Considering replaceing household incandescents with CFL. However, the possibility of lightning damage worries me. Are the solid state ballasts in these lamps susceptible or resistant to surge damage?

Response:

> Considering replaceing household incandescents with CFL. > However, the possibility of lightning damage worries me. > Are the solid state ballasts in these lamps susceptible or resistant to > surge damage?

You mean that with all of the alternative energy sources you have in your garage, that you don’t have a whole house surge protector?

Response:

> Considering replaceing household incandescents with CFL. > However, the possibility of lightning damage worries me. > Are the solid state ballasts in these lamps susceptible or resistant to > surge damage?

I dunno,but we’ve had a few outages,brownouts,and whatnot lately,and all of the CFL’s around here seem to have survived,but so did everything else,so I guess it wasn’t all that bad afterall. A whole house surge arrestor is a good investment,and the few i’ve seen aren’t even that expensive.(~$50) I’m sure there are better/more expensive ones around. Also,the CFL’s didn’t seem to care about the MSW inverter either..But,then again,they do use a switching supply/ballast inside.Heck they’ll probably even run off of DC,aslong as the voltage is in-range.(~170-ish Volts?)

Response:

Try wrapping black straps around it and hooking the ends ,,, black rubber – like truck drivers use … M.M. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I learned something interesting today. My generator makes low pitched > knocking noises from the cylinders, but also some high pitched noise. > To my great surprise, that high pitched noise was mostly coming from > the "bell" cover of the generator head. As soon as I placed both of my > hands on it firmly, the generator instantly became considerably > quieter. The difference was amazing. > My first question is, how come it makes so much noise. It did not > feel as though some moving part was touching it from inside. > My second question is, can I find some material and applicator > (adhesive or magnetic) to attach an equivalent of a human palm, for > vibration control purposes. I am thinking about the silicone "boob" > material, like from better mousepads, or pads for keyboards, on some > advesive backing. > I could buy such silicone boob from say a computer store and attach it > with electrical tape. i would prefer something more professional, if > it would not cost too much. Just how much can such things set me back > and where to find them? I believe I could go quite a long way by > applying vibration dampeners to a few steel plates. Won’t do much for > the low noise, but it is not as annoying as high pitched noise. >In the submarine world, vibration dampening was *the* thing.  Being quieter >than the soviets was paramount.  Sounds like what you have there is a cover >that is resonating from some excitation vibration in the engine or >generator.  Easiest way to dampen something like that is to add weight.  Get >yourself something like a hose clamp that can go completely around the bell >housing with some room to spare.  Then evenly space some small bolts under >the clamp.  About eight or ten should be enough.  Tighten the clamp down >good so the bolts and bell housing vibrate as one.  This should change the >resonant frequency of the bell enough that it stops vibrating.  If I had a >nickel for each of the ‘anti-vibration staves’ I’ve strapped onto ’singing’ >pipes, I’d be on easy street. >Putting your hands on it works because you’re actually adding two things. >Another mass, and a viscous damper between the primary mass (the bell >housing) and the secondary mass (your hand). >daestrom

Response:

> My second question is, can I find some material and applicator > (adhesive or magnetic) to attach an equivalent of a human palm, for > vibration control purposes. I am thinking about the silicone "boob" > material, like from better mousepads, or pads for keyboards, on some > advesive backing.

Why go synthetic? Harley Davidson vibration is dampened by LIVE models, sporting what may or not be silicone ‘boob’ material. They usually place their hands on the tank just ..so.. Replace gas tank with bell housing and you’ve got yourself a pin up shot for all sorts of Diesel Fanatic calendars. A thin coat of bio-diesel on the models give a lustrous sheen that is so desirable in alternative energy circles. Adhesive backing would certainly make sure the ‘dampers’ don’t leave work too early. mike

Response:

I have read some great suggestions here. Some of them, or all of them, might work. An easier solution might be already out there for you. If you go to an automotive repair store, you will find that they sell a harmonic dampening silicone to be applied to the back of disc-brake pads. (disc breaks can produce a great laud screech when they are applied.) When they replace pads, they either come with a harmonic suppressor pad, or they use the silicone to coat the pad before installation. I’d suggest you smear this stuff all over it. It might help suppress the harmonic sound you are getting, and it should hold up to any temperatures it might get (it is designed to be on the back of disc pads…. they can get REAL hot in normal operation) Good luck, Hope you can find some peace and quiet

Response:

I noticed the problem you had in an earlier post. I replied with the following and this came close ! In case you had not read it here it is again.. I have read some great suggestions here. Some of them, or all of them, might work. An easier solution might be already out there for you. If you go to an automotive repair store, you will find that they sell a harmonic dampening silicone to be applied to the back of disc-brake pads. (disc breaks can produce a great laud screech when they are applied.) When they replace pads, they either come with a harmonic suppressor pad, or they use the silicone to coat the pad before installation. I’d suggest you smear this stuff all over it. It might help suppress the harmonic sound you are getting, and it should hold up to any temperatures it might get (it is designed to be on the back of disc pads…. they can get REAL hot in normal operation) Good luck, Hope you can find some peace and quiet Dave… remove the urine in email address to get me…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Semi jokingly, I found this "JAC OFF" silicone pad that should be > working. It is just like my hand, after all. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5545417145 > Will look for something more rectangular though. > i > I learned something interesting today. My generator makes low pitched > knocking noises from the cylinders, but also some high pitched noise. > To my great surprise, that high pitched noise was mostly coming from > the "bell" cover of the generator head. As soon as I placed both of my > hands on it firmly, the generator instantly became considerably > quieter. The difference was amazing. > My first question is, how come it makes so much noise. It did not > feel as though some moving part was touching it from inside. > My second question is, can I find some material and applicator > (adhesive or magnetic) to attach an equivalent of a human palm, for > vibration control purposes. I am thinking about the silicone "boob" > material, like from better mousepads, or pads for keyboards, on some > advesive backing. > I could buy such silicone boob from say a computer store and attach it > with electrical tape. i would prefer something more professional, if > it would not cost too much. Just how much can such things set me back > and where to find them? I believe I could go quite a long way by > applying vibration dampeners to a few steel plates. Won’t do much for > the low noise, but it is not as annoying as high pitched noise. > i > —

Response:

Yeah, something is resonating.  Could be that you have found the natural frequency of the bell cover, which is being excited by the engine firing. (The firing event is "broad band" in frequency during each occurance even though the "firing frequency" itself is low). As Ron said, The easiest solution is probably to add mass.  Look under just about any new Dodge Truck or Jeep at the rear axle and you will see a mass hanging off of it which is sometimes referred to as "donkey balls".  Acutally these have a rubber mount as well which gives them some degree of behavior as a tuned absorber.  Tuning absorbers is hell if you don’t have the right equipment. When adding the mass try not to mount it at just one point.  It may happen that you create a prime location for fatigue failure if all of the reaction of the mass vibration travells through just one point. Rory Johnson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->To my great surprise, that high pitched noise was mostly coming from >the "bell" cover of the generator head. As soon as I placed both of my >hands on it firmly, the generator instantly became considerably >quieter. The difference was amazing. > The cover’s resonant frequency happens to match something else > that’s vibrating. Three solutions, from easiest to hardest: > 1: Add some mass. Sometimes just sticking some heavy magnets to > it will help. > 2: Make it stiffer. Often easier said than done, but might be > worth a try. > 3: Add a "dynamic absorber" (tuned mass/spring system) that > vibrates out of phase at the same frequency, cancelling the > vibration. This involves some trial and error but can work well > in some cases. The classic paper on dynamic absorbers is here: > http://domino.automation.rockwell.com/applications/gs/region/EntekWeb… > (PDF file, watch line wrap) > If the paper is not there, look for a paper by Randy Fox on this page: > http://domino.automation.rockwell.com/applications/gs/region/EntekWeb… > I don’t think the consistency of the material makes any > difference, except to the extent that it’s also making it heavier > and/or stiffer. Lead weights should work just as well. > Of course it would be nice to find the driving force behind the > vibration and correct it (ie, make the machine run smoother in > the first place), but if the resonant frequency of the cover matches > the speed the generator has to run at, it may vibrate anyway. > So you’re back to changing its mass and/or stiffness.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I learned something interesting today. My generator makes low pitched > knocking noises from the cylinders, but also some high pitched noise. > To my great surprise, that high pitched noise was mostly coming from > the "bell" cover of the generator head. As soon as I placed both of my > hands on it firmly, the generator instantly became considerably > quieter. The difference was amazing. > My first question is, how come it makes so much noise. It did not > feel as though some moving part was touching it from inside. > My second question is, can I find some material and applicator > (adhesive or magnetic) to attach an equivalent of a human palm, for > vibration control purposes. I am thinking about the silicone "boob" > material, like from better mousepads, or pads for keyboards, on some > advesive backing. > I could buy such silicone boob from say a computer store and attach it > with electrical tape. i would prefer something more professional, if > it would not cost too much. Just how much can such things set me back > and where to find them? I believe I could go quite a long way by > applying vibration dampeners to a few steel plates. Won’t do much for > the low noise, but it is not as annoying as high pitched noise. > In the submarine world, vibration dampening was *the* thing.  Being quieter > than the soviets was paramount.  Sounds like what you have there is a cover > that is resonating from some excitation vibration in the engine or > generator.  Easiest way to dampen something like that is to add weight.  Get > yourself something like a hose clamp that can go completely around the bell > housing with some room to spare.  Then evenly space some small bolts under > the clamp.  About eight or ten should be enough.  Tighten the clamp down > good so the bolts and bell housing vibrate as one.  This should change the > resonant frequency of the bell enough that it stops vibrating.  If I had a > nickel for each of the ‘anti-vibration staves’ I’ve strapped onto ’singing’ > pipes, I’d be on easy street.

This makes complete sense. I will try to combine adding weight, with damoening action. Ibought some silicone gel thingy on ebay and will strap it to the housing with electrical tape. I hope to receive the decibel meter by then and will report the result. > Putting your hands on it works because you’re actually adding two things. > Another mass, and a viscous damper between the primary mass (the bell > housing) and the secondary mass (your hand).

I tend to agree with this. I may also go to walmart and buy some silicone bra inserts and tape them to various stamped sheet pieces of the genset. i

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I learned something interesting today. My generator makes low pitched > knocking noises from the cylinders, but also some high pitched noise. > To my great surprise, that high pitched noise was mostly coming from > the "bell" cover of the generator head. As soon as I placed both of my > hands on it firmly, the generator instantly became considerably > quieter. The difference was amazing. > My first question is, how come it makes so much noise. It did not > feel as though some moving part was touching it from inside. > My second question is, can I find some material and applicator > (adhesive or magnetic) to attach an equivalent of a human palm, for > vibration control purposes. I am thinking about the silicone "boob" > material, like from better mousepads, or pads for keyboards, on some > advesive backing. > I could buy such silicone boob from say a computer store and attach it > with electrical tape. i would prefer something more professional, if > it would not cost too much. Just how much can such things set me back > and where to find them? I believe I could go quite a long way by > applying vibration dampeners to a few steel plates. Won’t do much for > the low noise, but it is not as annoying as high pitched noise.

In the submarine world, vibration dampening was *the* thing.  Being quieter than the soviets was paramount.  Sounds like what you have there is a cover that is resonating from some excitation vibration in the engine or generator.  Easiest way to dampen something like that is to add weight.  Get yourself something like a hose clamp that can go completely around the bell housing with some room to spare.  Then evenly space some small bolts under the clamp.  About eight or ten should be enough.  Tighten the clamp down good so the bolts and bell housing vibrate as one.  This should change the resonant frequency of the bell enough that it stops vibrating.  If I had a nickel for each of the ‘anti-vibration staves’ I’ve strapped onto ’singing’ pipes, I’d be on easy street. Putting your hands on it works because you’re actually adding two things. Another mass, and a viscous damper between the primary mass (the bell housing) and the secondary mass (your hand). daestrom

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I learned something interesting today. My generator makes low pitched > knocking noises from the cylinders, but also some high pitched noise. > To my great surprise, that high pitched noise was mostly coming from > the "bell" cover of the generator head. As soon as I placed both of my > hands on it firmly, the generator instantly became considerably > quieter. The difference was amazing. > My first question is, how come it makes so much noise. It did not > feel as though some moving part was touching it from inside. > My second question is, can I find some material and applicator > (adhesive or magnetic) to attach an equivalent of a human palm, for > vibration control purposes. I am thinking about the silicone "boob" > material, like from better mousepads, or pads for keyboards, on some > advesive backing.

There is a material known as "composite steel", which consists of sheets of steel that have been pounded together, ala the Damascene sword. This steel is inherently vibration absorbing, and is used for acoustic control. You might consider tack welding pieces of it to the bell cover. This would be more durable under exposure to vibration, temperature, and fuel leakage, than plastics.

Response:

>To my great surprise, that high pitched noise was mostly coming from >the "bell" cover of the generator head. As soon as I placed both of my >hands on it firmly, the generator instantly became considerably >quieter. The difference was amazing.

The cover’s resonant frequency happens to match something else that’s vibrating. Three solutions, from easiest to hardest: 1: Add some mass. Sometimes just sticking some heavy magnets to it will help. 2: Make it stiffer. Often easier said than done, but might be worth a try. 3: Add a "dynamic absorber" (tuned mass/spring system) that vibrates out of phase at the same frequency, cancelling the vibration. This involves some trial and error but can work well in some cases. The classic paper on dynamic absorbers is here: http://domino.automation.rockwell.com/applications/gs/region/EntekWeb… (PDF file, watch line wrap) If the paper is not there, look for a paper by Randy Fox on this page: http://domino.automation.rockwell.com/applications/gs/region/EntekWeb… I don’t think the consistency of the material makes any difference, except to the extent that it’s also making it heavier and/or stiffer. Lead weights should work just as well. Of course it would be nice to find the driving force behind the vibration and correct it (ie, make the machine run smoother in the first place), but if the resonant frequency of the cover matches the speed the generator has to run at, it may vibrate anyway. So you’re back to changing its mass and/or stiffness.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>To my great surprise, that high pitched noise was mostly coming from >>the "bell" cover of the generator head. As soon as I placed both of my >>hands on it firmly, the generator instantly became considerably >>quieter. The difference was amazing. >The cover’s resonant frequency happens to match something else >that’s vibrating. Three solutions, from easiest to hardest: >1: Add some mass. Sometimes just sticking some heavy magnets to >it will help. >2: Make it stiffer. Often easier said than done, but might be >worth a try. >3: Add a "dynamic absorber" (tuned mass/spring system) that >vibrates out of phase at the same frequency, cancelling the >vibration. This involves some trial and error but can work well >in some cases. The classic paper on dynamic absorbers is here: >http://domino.automation.rockwell.com/applications/gs/region/EntekWeb… >(PDF file, watch line wrap) >If the paper is not there, look for a paper by Randy Fox on this page: >http://domino.automation.rockwell.com/applications/gs/region/EntekWeb… >I don’t think the consistency of the material makes any >difference, except to the extent that it’s also making it heavier >and/or stiffer. Lead weights should work just as well. >Of course it would be nice to find the driving force behind the >vibration and correct it (ie, make the machine run smoother in >the first place), but if the resonant frequency of the cover matches >the speed the generator has to run at, it may vibrate anyway. >So you’re back to changing its mass and/or stiffness. > or adding an equivaent of my hand, something soft and dampening. > Thanks for the pointers. I thought I had a silicone computer pad lying > around, but I am not so sure now. > i

How does the cover mount? Can you put a soft gasket under it? How about a shim someplace. Sometimes a "hammer adjustment" will help, a small crease in the cover may stop the vibration. Dave

Response:

I think the word you are looking for is "resonance". Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust http://www.green-trust.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I learned something interesting today. My generator makes low pitched > knocking noises from the cylinders, but also some high pitched noise. > To my great surprise, that high pitched noise was mostly coming from > the "bell" cover of the generator head. As soon as I placed both of my > hands on it firmly, the generator instantly became considerably > quieter. The difference was amazing. > My first question is, how come it makes so much noise. It did not > feel as though some moving part was touching it from inside. > My second question is, can I find some material and applicator > (adhesive or magnetic) to attach an equivalent of a human palm, for > vibration control purposes. I am thinking about the silicone "boob" > material, like from better mousepads, or pads for keyboards, on some > advesive backing. > I could buy such silicone boob from say a computer store and attach it > with electrical tape. i would prefer something more professional, if > it would not cost too much. Just how much can such things set me back > and where to find them? I believe I could go quite a long way by > applying vibration dampeners to a few steel plates. Won’t do much for > the low noise, but it is not as annoying as high pitched noise. > i

Response:

Semi jokingly, I found this "JAC OFF" silicone pad that should be working. It is just like my hand, after all. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5545417145 Will look for something more rectangular though. i – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I learned something interesting today. My generator makes low pitched > knocking noises from the cylinders, but also some high pitched noise. > To my great surprise, that high pitched noise was mostly coming from > the "bell" cover of the generator head. As soon as I placed both of my > hands on it firmly, the generator instantly became considerably > quieter. The difference was amazing. > My first question is, how come it makes so much noise. It did not > feel as though some moving part was touching it from inside. > My second question is, can I find some material and applicator > (adhesive or magnetic) to attach an equivalent of a human palm, for > vibration control purposes. I am thinking about the silicone "boob" > material, like from better mousepads, or pads for keyboards, on some > advesive backing. > I could buy such silicone boob from say a computer store and attach it > with electrical tape. i would prefer something more professional, if > it would not cost too much. Just how much can such things set me back > and where to find them? I believe I could go quite a long way by > applying vibration dampeners to a few steel plates. Won’t do much for > the low noise, but it is not as annoying as high pitched noise. > i

–

Response:

I learned something interesting today. My generator makes low pitched knocking noises from the cylinders, but also some high pitched noise. To my great surprise, that high pitched noise was mostly coming from the "bell" cover of the generator head. As soon as I placed both of my hands on it firmly, the generator instantly became considerably quieter. The difference was amazing. My first question is, how come it makes so much noise. It did not feel as though some moving part was touching it from inside. My second question is, can I find some material and applicator (adhesive or magnetic) to attach an equivalent of a human palm, for vibration control purposes. I am thinking about the silicone "boob" material, like from better mousepads, or pads for keyboards, on some advesive backing. I could buy such silicone boob from say a computer store and attach it with electrical tape. i would prefer something more professional, if it would not cost too much. Just how much can such things set me back and where to find them? I believe I could go quite a long way by applying vibration dampeners to a few steel plates. Won’t do much for the low noise, but it is not as annoying as high pitched noise. i

Response:

> In fact, A/C systems start cycling the compressor at no less than 38 degrees > F.  SO… when the air coming into the evaporator reaches this low > temperature, the compressor is cycled or shut OFF if the air temperature > entering the evaporator continues to drop.  Otherwise the evaporator would > become a block of ice, which would prevent any air from reaching the heater > core (in nearly all cases).

Now THIS makes perfect sense. (I’d have to look up the temp at which refrigerants go liquid to confirm or deny Steve G’s belief.) I’m almost certain that the A/C on my old 85 Pontiac would cycle at any temp, though. I’ll check up with the Honda soon. Anyway, I doubt it would be that difficult (in the original design) to construct an airflow system that would shunt warmer air around the evap unit when the temp dropped in winter, in order to preserve the dehumidifying characteristics of an A/C-based system.

Response:

> BTW, while there are products out there that are sold specifically to > curtail condensation, a bottle of windex and some newspaper works very > well.

Just Newspaper on it’s own does a fair job, without smears if the windows are only a little grubby on the inside too. And you can dry a slightly damp window with Newspaper and clean it at the same time. One tip, alcohol based de-icers for the outside of glass can actually cause misting on the inside because they change temperature so quickly the condensation forms from moisture in the car. You’ll get less condensation if the glass is scraped without de-icer (unless it is so hard you can’t shift it). — "Sorry Sir, the meatballs are Orf" The poster formerly known as Skodapilot. http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

Response:

> new model top loading washing machine in the US today.  ;)

they still sell top loaders

Response:

> There’s a way to fix that, put a plastic bag over the outside of the > A/C after poking several holes in it. (The bag, duh).

Hah hah. I can’t see anything but destruction in my future from doing that… either the system overheats cuz there aren’t enough holes, or there are too many holes to keep it warm. I could blow a few units trying to get it right! I can live with it.

Response:

Has nothing to do with the refrigerant.  Has solely to do with the temperature water freezes at … 32 degrees.  Since in most cases, all air flows thru the evaporator and then to or past the heater core, were the water on the evaporator be allowed to freeze solid, no air would flow out of any of the plenum chamber outlets. —   – Philip

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The low temp cutout may have different settings, but that is most > likely a result of the diferent refrigerants used, r12 vs 134a, > Your 83 may still run at 40, but there is a temp close to that > where it will no longer engage. They all had low temp cutouts for > the very reason I mentioned.  Or, the low temp cutout may have been > by-passed or is not working properly.  Take it out on a cold frosty > morning and run the ac and let us know what happens. > I’m a mechanic by trade (inter-provincially licensed) and worked in > the field in the 70’s and 80’s and never saw a compressor cycle in > temp below 35 to 40 F.  Up here in the frozen north of Canada we > use our defrost a lot and they would engage the compressor in the > mild weather, but have never seen a compressor run in the cold. > Not sure what it has to do with buying a 3 gal toilet tho… > You certainly are entitle to your own opinion.  The AC on my 83 > Continental will run below 40 degrees but not my 2005 Lincoln LS > or my 2003 Mustang GT.  Go try a buy a three gallon toilet or a > new model top loading washing machine in the US today.  ;) > mike hunt >> No it’s not! >> AC systems have always had low temp cutouts on them, and it’s not >> idiocy for the above poster.  The ac  is called for anytime the >> defrost is selected on most cars but is prevented from cutting in >> below 40 F because below that temp the gaseous refrigerant will >> liquefy and as we all know you can not compress a liquid.  It >> cuts it out so that your compressor doesn’t smash to little bits >> trying to compress liquid refrigerant. >> Short lesson in refrigeration, compressor draws in low pressure >> gas, pumps out high pressure gas.  High pressure gas condenses >> into a liquid under pressure in… what else but the condenser >> (that other rad in the front of your car).  High pressure liquid >> is metered/sprayed into the evaporator where it becomes a low >> pressure gas again and so on. >> For the OP, cars with persistant high humidity situations >> sometimes have water leaks that may not be apparent.  I had a >> Supra that leaked water > at >> the hatch.  Windows seemed to fog easily.  Discovered one day >> that the spare tire well was half full of water. >> Steve >>> The deactivation on newer domestic and automotive AC’s, at 40 >>> degrees, is a federal regulation intended to save energy.  Same >>> as the limit on water capacity for toilets and the latest washing >>> machines sold in the US.  Your government at work. >>> mike hunt >>>>>> Unfortunately most A/C systems don’t run once the >>>>>> temperature drops below 40 degrees Fahrenheit. >>>>> I don’t believe this holds true for automotive systems. On my >>>>> old Pontiac the A/C was directly tied to the defroster >>>>> setting–switch the system to defrost, and the A/C was >>>>> activated. >>>> It depends on the make/model.  My cressida shuts the A/C off if >>>> you turn the inside temp past 75%. >>>>> Good way to keep the compressor oils circulating to keep the >>>>> seals lubricated, in addition to removing condensation. Worked >>>>> at any temp, as I recall, and I move around NY/New England. >>>> It does help with condensation. There’s no doubt about that. >>>>> I’ll confirm this on my new 94 Civic in a few days, as it has >>>>> now gotten cold enough around here to check. Disabling it >>>>> below 40 degrees would be idiocy–it’s the only way to remove >>>>> condensation effectively. >>>> I’m pretty sure that even in his case, it’s the temp you set the >>>> control to and not the outside temp. >>>>> It is true, however, that many room A/Cs don’t function when >>>>> the outside temp is "too low"–which occasionally annoys me. >>>> There’s a way to fix that, put a plastic bag over the outside >>>> of the A/C after poking several holes in it. (The bag, duh).

Response:

Where did *you* read that it’s a Federal Regulation about cutting A/C at 40 degrees?  And don’t give me that "go look it up BS." —   – Philip

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The deactivation on newer domestic and automotive AC’s, at 40 > degrees, is a federal regulation intended to save energy.  Same > as the limit on water capacity for toilets and the latest washing > machines sold in the US.  Your government at work. > mike hunt >>> Unfortunately most A/C systems don’t run once the >>> temperature drops below 40 degrees Fahrenheit. >> I don’t believe this holds true for automotive systems. On my old >> Pontiac the A/C was directly tied to the defroster >> setting–switch the >> system to defrost, and the A/C was activated. > It depends on the make/model.  My cressida shuts the A/C off if you > turn the inside temp past 75%. >> Good way to keep the compressor oils circulating to keep the >> seals lubricated, in addition to removing condensation. Worked at >> any temp, as I recall, and I move >> around NY/New England. > It does help with condensation. There’s no doubt about that. >> I’ll confirm this on my new 94 Civic in a few days, as it has now >> gotten >> cold enough around here to check. Disabling it below 40 degrees >> would be >> idiocy–it’s the only way to remove condensation effectively. > I’m pretty sure that even in his case, it’s the temp you set the > control to and not the outside temp. >> It is true, however, that many room A/Cs don’t function when the >> outside temp >> is "too low"–which occasionally annoys me. > There’s a way to fix that, put a plastic bag over the outside of > the > A/C after poking several holes in it. (The bag, duh).

Response:

About a year ago, I did have to replace one of our toilets.  Bought a new Kohler.  They play all sorts of timing, level, and displacement tricks to limit the flush volume to 1.6 gallons.  But after you "change things" and since the tank size permits more water storage, the flush can easily be increased to just under 3 gallons.   Want a used 5 gallon flusher?   LOL And you are COMPLETELY in error about buying a top loader washing machine. They dominate by wide margin.  Front loaders are the in the small minority of units sold. —   – Philip

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You certainly are entitle to your own opinion.  The AC on my 83 > Continental will run below 40 degrees but not my 2005 Lincoln LS > or my 2003 Mustang GT.  Go try a buy a three gallon toilet or a > new model top loading washing machine in the US today.  ;) > mike hunt > No it’s not! > AC systems have always had low temp cutouts on them, and it’s not > idiocy for the above poster.  The ac  is called for anytime the > defrost is selected on most cars but is prevented from cutting in > below 40 F because below that temp the gaseous refrigerant will > liquefy and as we all know you can not compress a liquid.  It cuts > it out so that your compressor doesn’t smash to little bits trying > to compress liquid refrigerant. > Short lesson in refrigeration, compressor draws in low pressure > gas, pumps out high pressure gas.  High pressure gas condenses > into a liquid under pressure in… what else but the condenser > (that other rad in the front of your car).  High pressure liquid > is metered/sprayed into the evaporator where it becomes a low > pressure gas again and so on. > For the OP, cars with persistant high humidity situations > sometimes have water leaks that may not be apparent.  I had a > Supra that leaked water at the hatch.  Windows seemed to fog > easily.  Discovered one day that the spare tire well was half full > of water. > Steve >> The deactivation on newer domestic and automotive AC’s, at 40 >> degrees, is a federal regulation intended to save energy.  Same >> as the limit on water capacity for toilets and the latest washing >> machines sold in the US.  Your government at work. >> mike hunt >>>>> Unfortunately most A/C systems don’t run once the >>>>> temperature drops below 40 degrees Fahrenheit. >>>> I don’t believe this holds true for automotive systems. On my >>>> old Pontiac the A/C was directly tied to the defroster >>>> setting–switch the system to defrost, and the A/C was >>>> activated. >>> It depends on the make/model.  My cressida shuts the A/C off if >>> you turn the inside temp past 75%. >>>> Good way to keep the compressor oils circulating to keep the >>>> seals lubricated, in addition to removing condensation. Worked >>>> at any temp, as I recall, and I move around NY/New England. >>> It does help with condensation. There’s no doubt about that. >>>> I’ll confirm this on my new 94 Civic in a few days, as it has >>>> now gotten cold enough around here to check. Disabling it below >>>> 40 degrees would be idiocy–it’s the only way to remove >>>> condensation effectively. >>> I’m pretty sure that even in his case, it’s the temp you set the >>> control to and not the outside temp. >>>> It is true, however, that many room A/Cs don’t function when >>>> the outside temp is "too low"–which occasionally annoys me. >>> There’s a way to fix that, put a plastic bag over the outside of >>> the A/C after poking several holes in it. (The bag, duh).

Response:

> Unfortunately most A/C systems don’t run once the > temperature drops below 40 degrees Fahrenheit. > I don’t believe this holds true for automotive systems.

It does apply to automotive A/C. >On my old > Pontiac the A/C was directly tied to the defroster setting–switch > the system to defrost, and the A/C was activated. Good way to keep > the compressor oils circulating to keep the seals lubricated, in > addition to removing condensation. Worked at any temp, as I recall, > and I move around NY/New England. > I’ll confirm this on my new 94 Civic in a few days, as it has now > gotten cold enough around here to check. Disabling it below 40 > degrees would be idiocy–it’s the only way to remove condensation > effectively. It is true, however, that many room A/Cs don’t > function when the outside temp is "too low"–which occasionally > annoys me.

In fact, A/C systems start cycling the compressor at no less than 38 degrees F.  SO… when the air coming into the evaporator reaches this low temperature, the compressor is cycled or shut OFF if the air temperature entering the evaporator continues to drop.  Otherwise the evaporator would become a block of ice, which would prevent any air from reaching the heater core (in nearly all cases). —   – Philip

Response:

> For the OP, cars with persistant high humidity situations sometimes have > water leaks that may not be apparent.  I had a Supra that leaked water at > the hatch.  Windows seemed to fog easily.  Discovered one day that the > spare > tire well was half full of water. > Steve

Thanks.  We had that very issue with this car (89 Toyota Corolla).  The spare tire well filled with water shortly after we bought the car.  It [water] was coming in from the rear lights which were newly installed (without sealant).  Fixed that problem. No AC in this car.  So, unfortunately, with where we live (Northwest Oregon) and the amount of rain we get and how cold it is here until, like, next August — LOL — we’ll just have to deal with it.  Floormats are a must in this wet area.  SO they’re stayin’. I will try Anti-Fog wipes.  Will see how those work out.  Rainex works great in this area.  I know that much.  But that’s the outside.  And the wipers work fine getting that "condenstation" off the windows. Aaron

Response:

The low temp cutout may have different settings, but that is most likely a result of the diferent refrigerants used, r12 vs 134a,  Your 83 may still run at 40, but there is a temp close to that where it will no longer engage. They all had low temp cutouts for the very reason I mentioned.  Or, the low temp cutout may have been by-passed or is not working properly.  Take it out on a cold frosty morning and run the ac and let us know what happens. I’m a mechanic by trade (inter-provincially licensed) and worked in the field in the 70’s and 80’s and never saw a compressor cycle in temp below 35 to 40 F.  Up here in the frozen north of Canada we use our defrost a lot and they would engage the compressor in the mild weather, but have never seen a compressor run in the cold. Not sure what it has to do with buying a 3 gal toilet tho…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You certainly are entitle to your own opinion.  The AC on my 83 > Continental will run below 40 degrees but not my 2005 Lincoln LS > or my 2003 Mustang GT.  Go try a buy a three gallon toilet or a > new model top loading washing machine in the US today.  ;) > mike hunt > No it’s not! > AC systems have always had low temp cutouts on them, and it’s not idiocy for > the above poster.  The ac  is called for anytime the defrost is selected on > most cars but is prevented from cutting in below 40 F because below that > temp the gaseous refrigerant will liquefy and as we all know you can not > compress a liquid.  It cuts it out so that your compressor doesn’t smash to > little bits trying to compress liquid refrigerant. > Short lesson in refrigeration, compressor draws in low pressure gas, pumps > out high pressure gas.  High pressure gas condenses into a liquid under > pressure in… what else but the condenser (that other rad in the front of > your car).  High pressure liquid is metered/sprayed into the evaporator > where it becomes a low pressure gas again and so on. > For the OP, cars with persistant high humidity situations sometimes have > water leaks that may not be apparent.  I had a Supra that leaked water at > the hatch.  Windows seemed to fog easily.  Discovered one day that the spare > tire well was half full of water. > Steve > > The deactivation on newer domestic and automotive AC’s, at 40 > > degrees, is a federal regulation intended to save energy.  Same > > as the limit on water capacity for toilets and the latest washing > > machines sold in the US.  Your government at work. > > mike hunt > > > >> Unfortunately most A/C systems don’t run once the > > > >> temperature drops below 40 degrees Fahrenheit. > > > >I don’t believe this holds true for automotive systems. On my old > > > >Pontiac the A/C was directly tied to the defroster setting–switch the > > > >system to defrost, and the A/C was activated. > > > It depends on the make/model.  My cressida shuts the A/C off if you > > > turn the inside temp past 75%. > > > >Good way to keep the compressor oils circulating to keep the seals > lubricated, in addition to > > > >removing condensation. Worked at any temp, as I recall, and I move > > > >around NY/New England. > > > It does help with condensation. There’s no doubt about that. > > > >I’ll confirm this on my new 94 Civic in a few days, as it has now > gotten > > > >cold enough around here to check. Disabling it below 40 degrees would > be > > > >idiocy–it’s the only way to remove condensation effectively. > > > I’m pretty sure that even in his case, it’s the temp you set the > > > control to and not the outside temp. > > > >It is true, however, that many room A/Cs don’t function when the > outside temp > > > >is "too low"–which occasionally annoys me. > > > There’s a way to fix that, put a plastic bag over the outside of the > > > A/C after poking several holes in it. (The bag, duh).

Response:

You certainly are entitle to your own opinion.  The AC on my 83 Continental will run below 40 degrees but not my 2005 Lincoln LS or my 2003 Mustang GT.  Go try a buy a three gallon toilet or a new model top loading washing machine in the US today.  ;) mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > No it’s not! > AC systems have always had low temp cutouts on them, and it’s not idiocy for > the above poster.  The ac  is called for anytime the defrost is selected on > most cars but is prevented from cutting in below 40 F because below that > temp the gaseous refrigerant will liquefy and as we all know you can not > compress a liquid.  It cuts it out so that your compressor doesn’t smash to > little bits trying to compress liquid refrigerant. > Short lesson in refrigeration, compressor draws in low pressure gas, pumps > out high pressure gas.  High pressure gas condenses into a liquid under > pressure in… what else but the condenser (that other rad in the front of > your car).  High pressure liquid is metered/sprayed into the evaporator > where it becomes a low pressure gas again and so on. > For the OP, cars with persistant high humidity situations sometimes have > water leaks that may not be apparent.  I had a Supra that leaked water at > the hatch.  Windows seemed to fog easily.  Discovered one day that the spare > tire well was half full of water. > Steve > The deactivation on newer domestic and automotive AC’s, at 40 > degrees, is a federal regulation intended to save energy.  Same > as the limit on water capacity for toilets and the latest washing > machines sold in the US.  Your government at work. > mike hunt > > >> Unfortunately most A/C systems don’t run once the > > >> temperature drops below 40 degrees Fahrenheit. > > >I don’t believe this holds true for automotive systems. On my old > > >Pontiac the A/C was directly tied to the defroster setting–switch the > > >system to defrost, and the A/C was activated. > > It depends on the make/model.  My cressida shuts the A/C off if you > > turn the inside temp past 75%. > > >Good way to keep the compressor oils circulating to keep the seals > lubricated, in addition to > > >removing condensation. Worked at any temp, as I recall, and I move > > >around NY/New England. > > It does help with condensation. There’s no doubt about that. > > >I’ll confirm this on my new 94 Civic in a few days, as it has now > gotten > > >cold enough around here to check. Disabling it below 40 degrees would > be > > >idiocy–it’s the only way to remove condensation effectively. > > I’m pretty sure that even in his case, it’s the temp you set the > > control to and not the outside temp. > > >It is true, however, that many room A/Cs don’t function when the > outside temp > > >is "too low"–which occasionally annoys me. > > There’s a way to fix that, put a plastic bag over the outside of the > > A/C after poking several holes in it. (The bag, duh).

Response:

If your vehicle is equipped with a manual ‘recirc mode’ and you are operating your heating system in the ‘recirc mode,’ that’s likely your problem.  If not, check for a heater core leak mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Condensation on the inside windows.  I hate it.  How do I get rid of it? > What’s the cause of it?  Why does it take so long to remove with the > defroster?  How can I seal up the outside of my car.  What’s the best way to > check for air/water infiltration.  Ugh.  Help!  :)

Response:

> Condensation on the inside windows.  I hate it.  How do I get rid of it? > What’s the cause of it?  Why does it take so long to remove with the > defroster?  How can I seal up the outside of my car.  What’s the best way to > check for air/water infiltration.  Ugh.  Help!  :)

Sealing up your car will only make things worse – unless of course you don’t have the need to breath. The moisture in your will condense on the windows. How cold is you climate? Running the A/C while heating will remove a lot of moisture. Unfortunately most A/C systems don’t run once the temperature drops below 40 degrees Fahrenheit. Avoid using the recirculate setting. This just allows moisture to build up in the car. Regards, Ed White

Response:

The deactivation on newer domestic and automotive AC’s, at 40 degrees, is a federal regulation intended to save energy.  Same as the limit on water capacity for toilets and the latest washing machines sold in the US.  Your government at work. mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Unfortunately most A/C systems don’t run once the >> temperature drops below 40 degrees Fahrenheit. >I don’t believe this holds true for automotive systems. On my old >Pontiac the A/C was directly tied to the defroster setting–switch the >system to defrost, and the A/C was activated. > It depends on the make/model.  My cressida shuts the A/C off if you > turn the inside temp past 75%. >Good way to keep the compressor oils circulating to keep the seals lubricated, in addition to >removing condensation. Worked at any temp, as I recall, and I move >around NY/New England. > It does help with condensation. There’s no doubt about that. >I’ll confirm this on my new 94 Civic in a few days, as it has now gotten >cold enough around here to check. Disabling it below 40 degrees would be >idiocy–it’s the only way to remove condensation effectively. > I’m pretty sure that even in his case, it’s the temp you set the > control to and not the outside temp. >It is true, however, that many room A/Cs don’t function when the outside temp >is "too low"–which occasionally annoys me. > There’s a way to fix that, put a plastic bag over the outside of the > A/C after poking several holes in it. (The bag, duh).

Response:

No it’s not! AC systems have always had low temp cutouts on them, and it’s not idiocy for the above poster.  The ac  is called for anytime the defrost is selected on most cars but is prevented from cutting in below 40 F because below that temp the gaseous refrigerant will liquefy and as we all know you can not compress a liquid.  It cuts it out so that your compressor doesn’t smash to little bits trying to compress liquid refrigerant. Short lesson in refrigeration, compressor draws in low pressure gas, pumps out high pressure gas.  High pressure gas condenses into a liquid under pressure in… what else but the condenser (that other rad in the front of your car).  High pressure liquid is metered/sprayed into the evaporator where it becomes a low pressure gas again and so on. For the OP, cars with persistant high humidity situations sometimes have water leaks that may not be apparent.  I had a Supra that leaked water at the hatch.  Windows seemed to fog easily.  Discovered one day that the spare tire well was half full of water. Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The deactivation on newer domestic and automotive AC’s, at 40 > degrees, is a federal regulation intended to save energy.  Same > as the limit on water capacity for toilets and the latest washing > machines sold in the US.  Your government at work. > mike hunt > >> Unfortunately most A/C systems don’t run once the > >> temperature drops below 40 degrees Fahrenheit. > >I don’t believe this holds true for automotive systems. On my old > >Pontiac the A/C was directly tied to the defroster setting–switch the > >system to defrost, and the A/C was activated. > It depends on the make/model.  My cressida shuts the A/C off if you > turn the inside temp past 75%. > >Good way to keep the compressor oils circulating to keep the seals

lubricated, in addition to – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >removing condensation. Worked at any temp, as I recall, and I move > >around NY/New England. > It does help with condensation. There’s no doubt about that. > >I’ll confirm this on my new 94 Civic in a few days, as it has now gotten > >cold enough around here to check. Disabling it below 40 degrees would be > >idiocy–it’s the only way to remove condensation effectively. > I’m pretty sure that even in his case, it’s the temp you set the > control to and not the outside temp. > >It is true, however, that many room A/Cs don’t function when the outside temp > >is "too low"–which occasionally annoys me. > There’s a way to fix that, put a plastic bag over the outside of the > A/C after poking several holes in it. (The bag, duh).

Response:

        Wet shoes and floor mats aggravate the situation too.      bob

Response:

> Wet shoes and floor mats aggravate the situation too.      bob

So do lengthy discussions on the merits of Toyota vs. Honda vs. Isuzu Vs. Chrysler Vs. Ford and who shouldda wouldda won the last election — Ray O (correct punctuation to reply)

Response:

> Wet shoes and floor mats aggravate the situation too.      bob

I always forget that part. The heater gets going and evaporates the water from around our shoes and mats, then the moist air hits the not-yet-heated windows. Mike

Response:

what about leather seats…does that add to the condensation?I have leather and this is my first winter with the car.I find it gets a little humid in there also

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Wet shoes and floor mats aggravate the situation too.      bob > I always forget that part. The heater gets going and evaporates the water > from around our shoes and mats, then the moist air hits the not-yet-heated > windows. > Mike

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Condensation on the inside windows.  I hate it.  How do I get rid of it? >>What’s the cause of it?  Why does it take so long to remove with the >>defroster?  How can I seal up the outside of my car.  What’s the best way >>to >>check for air/water infiltration.  Ugh.  Help!  :) >Best way to deal with inside condensation is to use the A/C. >Best way to *avoid* it is to *clean* the inside glass surfaces. >. > Yep. That, and tell your passengers to stop breathing. > BTW, while there are products out there that are sold specifically to > curtail condensation, a bottle of windex and some newspaper works very > well.

Ah, yes.  When in doubt, use the simplets option.  :)  Thanks. And thanks to all who have posted.  I really appreciate it. Aaron

Response:

> Unfortunately most A/C systems don’t run once the > temperature drops below 40 degrees Fahrenheit.

I don’t believe this holds true for automotive systems. On my old Pontiac the A/C was directly tied to the defroster setting–switch the system to defrost, and the A/C was activated. Good way to keep the compressor oils circulating to keep the seals lubricated, in addition to removing condensation. Worked at any temp, as I recall, and I move around NY/New England. I’ll confirm this on my new 94 Civic in a few days, as it has now gotten cold enough around here to check. Disabling it below 40 degrees would be idiocy–it’s the only way to remove condensation effectively. It is true, however, that many room A/Cs don’t function when the outside temp is "too low"–which occasionally annoys me.

Response:

Condensation on the inside windows.  I hate it.  How do I get rid of it? What’s the cause of it?  Why does it take so long to remove with the defroster?  How can I seal up the outside of my car.  What’s the best way to check for air/water infiltration.  Ugh.  Help!  :)

Response:

I run my AC briefly to get rid of it. Not sure if sealing your car would help, if that were possible. Remember that condensation is due to the humidity in the air and your car would still contain air, even if sealed. Remco

Response:

>Condensation on the inside windows.  I hate it.  How do I get rid of it? >What’s the cause of it?  Why does it take so long to remove with the >defroster?  How can I seal up the outside of my car.  What’s the best way to >check for air/water infiltration.  Ugh.  Help!  :)

Best way to deal with inside condensation is to use the A/C. Best way to *avoid* it is to *clean* the inside glass surfaces. .

Response:

> Condensation on the inside windows.  I hate it.  How do I get rid > of it? What’s the cause of it?  Why does it take so long to remove > with the defroster?  How can I seal up the outside of my car. What’s the > best way to check for air/water infiltration.  Ugh. Help!  :)

As others have and will state, the A/C must be run with the defroster (your A/C -is- operational, isn’t it?).   Also, that YOU are in the car …. BREATHING … contributes significantly to condensation on your windows.  If you get into the car with WET wearing wet clothing, this too contributes to window condensation. —   – Philip

Response:

Energy Firms Lavish Funds on Inauguration By PETE YOST Associated Press, Sat Dec 18, 2004 http://tinyurl.com/5h2fn WASHINGTON – More than $4.5 million from the corporate world has flowed to President Bush’s inauguration fund, much of it from the energy industry and some of its executives in contributions of $250,000 each. Outside the energy sector, New Orleans Saints football team owner Tom Benson gave $50,000 and his companies gave $200,000, the fund reported Friday. Northrop Grumman Corp., the world’s largest shipbuilder and second-largest U.S. defense contractor, donated $100,000. Michael Dell, chairman of Dell Inc., the world’s largest personal computer maker, gave $250,000. So did United Technologies, maker products ranging from escalators to aircraft engines. Investment banking firm Stephens Group Inc. of Little Rock, Ark., gave $250,000. And the education loan firm Sallie Mae gave $250,000. Occidental Petroleum Corp., whose business stands to benefit from the president’s actions concerning Libya, donated $250,000, as did Exxon Mobil, the world’s largest publicly traded oil company. Exxon Mobil reported record third-quarter profits, thanks to higher prices for oil and natural gas. In April, Bush took steps to restore normal trade and investment ties with Libya, enabling four American oil companies, including Occidental, to resume commercial activities there after an 18-year absence. Bush’s action was a reward to Moammar Gadhafi for eliminating his most destructive weapons programs. Other donors from the energy sector included Texas oilman T. Boone Pickens, who gave $250,000; and former Enron President Richard Kinder, who left the firm five years before it collapsed and now is CEO of one of the largest energy transportation and storage companies in the country. Kinder also gave $250,000. Energy provider Southern Co., which owns utility companies in Alabama, Florida, Georgia and Mississippi, gave $250,000. The Nuclear Energy Institute, the policy organization of the nuclear industry, gave $100,000. _____ <http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=544&ncid=703&e=6&u=/a…>        Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access              >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

> Energy Firms Lavish Funds on Inauguration > By PETE YOST > Associated Press, Sat Dec 18, 2004 > http://tinyurl.com/5h2fn > WASHINGTON – More than $4.5 million from the corporate world has flowed > to President Bush’s inauguration fund, much of it from the energy > industry and some of its executives in contributions of $250,000 each. > Outside the energy sector, New Orleans Saints football team owner Tom > Benson gave $50,000 and his companies gave $200,000, the fund reported > Friday.

Yep, that’s one way to insure the Super Bowl often comes to the Big Sleazy even though the Saints are NEVER in it. (like I give a flyin’ frick). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Northrop Grumman Corp., the world’s largest shipbuilder and > second-largest U.S. defense contractor, donated $100,000. > Michael Dell, chairman of Dell Inc., the world’s largest personal > computer maker, gave $250,000. So did United Technologies, maker > products ranging from escalators to aircraft engines. > Investment banking firm Stephens Group Inc. of Little Rock, Ark., gave > $250,000. And the education loan firm Sallie Mae gave $250,000. > Occidental Petroleum Corp., whose business stands to benefit from the > president’s actions concerning Libya, donated $250,000, as did Exxon > Mobil, the world’s largest publicly traded oil company. Exxon Mobil > reported record third-quarter profits, thanks to higher prices for oil > and natural gas. > In April, Bush took steps to restore normal trade and investment ties > with Libya, enabling four American oil companies, including Occidental, > to resume commercial activities there after an 18-year absence. > Bush’s action was a reward to Moammar Gadhafi for eliminating his most > destructive weapons programs. > Other donors from the energy sector included Texas oilman T. Boone > Pickens, who gave $250,000; and former Enron President Richard Kinder, > who left the firm five years before it collapsed and now is CEO of one > of the largest energy transportation and storage companies in the > country. Kinder also gave $250,000. > Energy provider Southern Co., which owns utility companies in Alabama, > Florida, Georgia and Mississippi, gave $250,000. > The Nuclear Energy Institute, the policy organization of the nuclear > industry, gave $100,000. > _____

<http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=544&ncid=703&e=6&u=/a… 1218/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_inaugural_donors> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >        Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >              >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< > -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

Response:

to sell alt.energy equipment & energy saving devices..high commission .e-mail me for website address..

Response:

> to sell alt.energy equipment & energy saving devices..high commission > .e-mail me for website address..

quick change of direction found this in Niagara/Ontario classifieds """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" FS: 1.5 Watt Led Exit Signs $25 brand new..also Led Lights & Lighting Products For Sale!!…1000s of Energy Saving Devices!! We Will Beat Anyones Price!! e-mail me today for more info. also looking for distributors & sales reps.. """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Response:

Please excuse the newbie question…. Is there a way to monitor kilowat usuage PER CIRCUIT from the circuitbreaker box? It would really be usefull if I could know how much power is being used by circuit then it would be easy to break down WHERE the most power is being used in the house. thanks! -Doug

Response:

Per plug in apliance use a Kill a Watt meter,  it is cheap and accurate. A clamp on digital amp meter is ok if equipment is running. But to log a circuit over time someone else will know.

Response:

> Please excuse the newbie question…. > Is there a way to monitor kilowat usuage PER CIRCUIT from the > circuitbreaker box? It would really be usefull if I could know how > much power is being used by circuit then it would be easy to break > down WHERE the most power is being used in the house. > thanks! > -Doug

    For a one time measurement, a regular clamp on ammeter will do the job.  Open up the circuit box ( Danger, live wires and terminals will be exposed when you do this. ) and put the meter clamp around the wire in question.  Repeat until you run out of circuits.  You probably want to have some help doing this, as otherwise you will be doing a lot of running back and forth.     –Dale

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Please excuse the newbie question…. > Is there a way to monitor kilowat usuage PER CIRCUIT from the > circuitbreaker box? It would really be usefull if I could know how > much power is being used by circuit then it would be easy to break > down WHERE the most power is being used in the house. > thanks! > -Doug >     For a one time measurement, a regular clamp on ammeter will do > the job.  Open up the circuit box ( Danger, live wires and terminals > will be exposed when you do this. ) and put the meter clamp around > the wire in question.  Repeat until you run out of circuits.  You > probably want to have some help doing this, as otherwise you will > be doing a lot of running back and forth. >     –Dale

Thanks! I’m thinking there could be a market for a device that could record and download the info to a computer. Then you could yell at the daughter (or wife) when you see how much power that hair dryer is using Your suggestion definitely sounds a little dangerous. I’d probably want to shut the power off first before doing it.

Response:

>Thanks! I’m thinking there could be a market for a device that could >record and download the info to a computer. Then you could yell at the >daughter (or wife) when you see how much power that hair dryer is >using

Unfortunately, there isn’t much between the Watts Up class products, which require you to plug them in between the appliance and the wall, and professional power data loggers, which cost more than your yearly power bill. You could get yourself a spare meter and base from http://hialeahmeter.com/ and wire it into the various circuits in your house one at a time…

Response:

>>Thanks! I’m thinking there could be a market for a device that could >record and download the info to a computer. Then you could yell at the >daughter (or wife) when you see how much power that hair dryer is using >Unfortunately, there isn’t much between the Watts Up class products, >which require you to plug them in between the appliance and the wall, >and professional power data loggers…

Brand Electronics. Nick

Response:

> Please excuse the newbie question…. > Is there a way to monitor kilowat usuage PER CIRCUIT from the > circuitbreaker box? It would really be usefull if I could know how > much power is being used by circuit then it would be easy to break > down WHERE the most power is being used in the house. > thanks! > -Doug

Handy with a soldering iron? Have a look at the magazine _Circuit Cellar_. You should be able to get these articles through interlibrary loan: ISSUE 73 August 1996  From the Bench

Does anyone have recommendations for the ultimate book on building or putting together a solar electric system?  Maybe a list of several books? Don’t want science, but more layman’s type stuff.  An idiot’s guide to……but well worth the money?  Thanks!

Response:

> Does anyone have recommendations for the ultimate book on building or > putting together a solar electric system?  Maybe a list of several books? > Don’t want science, but more layman’s type stuff.  An idiot’s guide > to……but well worth the money?  Thanks!

        You may find the PV FAQ of some use, specifically Question 96B.         96B) Are there any good books about PV?         http://www.autobahn.mb.ca/~het/energy/pv_faq.html#Q96         The books by Davidson, Strong & Scheller have practical         how to material. <regards> -het PostSig:         <http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/>         <http://www.marryanamerican.ca> — "We need a wake up call. We need it desperately. We need basically  a new form of energy. I don’t know that there is one." -Matthew Simmons, energy adviser for President Bush, May 23rd 2002 Energy Alternatives: http://www.autobahn.mb.ca/~het/energy/energy.html H.E. Taylor  http://www.autobahn.mb.ca/~het/

Response:

> Does anyone have recommendations for the ultimate book on building or > putting together a solar electric system?  Maybe a list of several books? > Don’t want science, but more layman’s type stuff.  An idiot’s guide > to……but well worth the money?  Thanks!

Yeah, Staring at the Sun. (PDF on CD) $25 US, postage paid, Airmail. Contents by request. George

Response:

Did he ask for a book that is a guide for idiots, or by one?  hmmmm…… Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust http://www.green-trust.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Does anyone have recommendations for the ultimate book on building or >putting together a solar electric system?  Maybe a list of several books? >Don’t want science, but more layman’s type stuff.  An idiot’s guide >to……but well worth the money?  Thanks! > Yeah, Staring at the Sun. (PDF on CD) > $25 US, postage paid, Airmail. > Contents by request. > George

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Did he ask for a book that is a guide for idiots, or by one?  hmmmm…… > Steve Spence > Dir., Green Trust > http://www.green-trust.org >>Does anyone have recommendations for the ultimate book on building or >>putting together a solar electric system?  Maybe a list of several books? >>Don’t want science, but more layman’s type stuff.  An idiot’s guide >>to……but well worth the money?  Thanks! > Yeah, Staring at the Sun. (PDF on CD) > $25 US, postage paid, Airmail. > Contents by request. > George

Seen your system.

Response:

Glad you have seen it. It works. Not bad considering the funds I had to build it. Shows that anyone with a bit of electrical knowledge can safely build a system to provide themselves with power, especially if they don’t have a big budget to work with. It’s a work in progress. We add to it when funds allow. Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust http://www.green-trust.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Seen your system.

Response:

> Did he ask for a book that is a guide for idiots, or by one?  hmmmm…… > Steve Spence > Dir., Green Trust > http://www.green-trust.org

What’s a Green Conservative?

Response:

Someone who sits (squeezed) firmly between the democrats and the republicans and practices stewardship of the resources given to us. Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust http://www.green-trust.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Did he ask for a book that is a guide for idiots, or by one?  hmmmm…… >Steve Spence >Dir., Green Trust >http://www.green-trust.org > What’s a Green Conservative?

Response:

> Glad you have seen it. It works. Not bad considering the funds I had to > build it. Shows that anyone with a bit of electrical knowledge can > safely build a system to provide themselves with power, especially if > they don’t have a big budget to work with. It’s a work in progress. We > add to it when funds allow. > Steve Spence > Dir., Green Trust > http://www.green-trust.org > Seen your system.

Funds have very little to do with a clean installation. I have no doubt it works. But with the evidence of skill shown, fo how long.

Response:

Longer than your reputation lasted on this newsgroup. It’s a work in progress, so  the "in construction" look will be there for a while, but it is safe, and it is wired correctly. Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust http://www.green-trust.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Funds have very little to do with a clean installation. I have no doubt > it works. But with the evidence of skill shown, fo how long.

Response:

> Someone who sits (squeezed) firmly > between the democrats and the > republicans

So you are a Purple Conservative. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> and practices stewardship of the resources given to us. > Steve Spence > Dir., Green Trust > http://www.green-trust.org >>Did he ask for a book that is a guide for idiots, or by one? hmmmm…… >>Steve Spence >>Dir., Green Trust >>http://www.green-trust.org > What’s a Green Conservative?

Response:

> Did he ask for a book that is a guide for idiots, or by one?  hmmmm…… > Steve Spence > Dir., Green Trust > http://www.green-trust.org > What’s a Green Conservative?

I thought it was a Conservative who just hadn’t enough time to "ripen". 8^)

Response:

same as a pink one  but a different colour jeeez

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Did he ask for a book that is a guide for idiots, or by one? hmmmm…… > Steve Spence > Dir., Green Trust > http://www.green-trust.org > What’s a Green Conservative?

Response:

> Longer than your reputation lasted on this newsgroup. It’s a work in > progress, so  the "in construction" look will be there for a while, but > it is safe, and it is wired correctly. > Steve Spence > Dir., Green Trust > http://www.green-trust.org > Funds have very little to do with a clean installation. I have no doubt > it works. But with the evidence of skill shown, fo how long.

Maybe you should dust off your begging bowl. Surely someone will give you money for some fittings

Response:

I only get purple when I see the stupid anti-environmental decisions coming out of Washington ….. Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust http://www.green-trust.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Someone who sits (squeezed) firmly >between the democrats and the >republicans > So you are a Purple Conservative. >and practices stewardship of the resources given to us. >Steve Spence >Dir., Green Trust >http://www.green-trust.org >>>Did he ask for a book that is a guide for idiots, or by one? > hmmmm…… >>>Steve Spence >>>Dir., Green Trust >>>http://www.green-trust.org >>What’s a Green Conservative?

Response:

naw, I prefer working for a living. good things come to those who work for it. I do get a few donations here and there from those who appreciate the work I put into sharing our experiences, but primarily I’m self funded. So system upgrades compete with food and clothes. If I could just teach the kids to eat grass and run around naked. Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust http://www.green-trust.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Maybe you should dust off your begging bowl. Surely someone will give > you money for some fittings

Response:

> naw, I prefer working for a living. good things come to those who work > for it.

What a claim. It was not that long ago you had found yourself out of work. Panicked and went begging. Paid any of that back yet? > I do get a few donations here and there from those who appreciate the > work I put into sharing our experiences, but primarily I’m self funded. > So system upgrades compete with food and clothes. If I could just teach > the kids to eat grass and run around naked.

First time I have heard lack of funds as an excuse for poor workmanship. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Steve Spence > Dir., Green Trust > http://www.green-trust.org > Maybe you should dust off your begging bowl. Surely someone will give > you money for some fittings

Response:

George, you are such a bore, but ok, I’ll bite: Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust http://www.green-trust.org >naw, I prefer working for a living. good things come to those who work >for it. > What a claim. It was not that long ago you had found yourself out of > work. Panicked and went begging. Paid any of that back yet?

Ever been out of work? It happens. Ever have big medical bills yuo can’t pay? That happens too. Both at the same time is really rough. Last I heard, you pay back loans, not donations. I pay back donations with gratitude and by providing accurate, free information. I’ve been doing that for 20 years. Started with BBS’s, and moved to web in ‘94. >I do get a few donations here and there from those who appreciate the >work I put into sharing our experiences, but primarily I’m self funded. >So system upgrades compete with food and clothes. If I could just teach >the kids to eat grass and run around naked. > First time I have heard lack of funds as an excuse for poor workmanship.

What poor workmanship? I wasn’t aware you could tell the difference, since "work" doesn’t seem to be one of your strong points … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Steve Spence >Dir., Green Trust >http://www.green-trust.org >>Maybe you should dust off your begging bowl. Surely someone will give >>you money for some fittings

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> George, you are such a bore, but ok, I’ll bite: > Steve Spence > Dir., Green Trust > http://www.green-trust.org >>naw, I prefer working for a living. good things come to those who work >>for it. > What a claim. It was not that long ago you had found yourself out of > work. Panicked and went begging. Paid any of that back yet? > Ever been out of work? It happens. Ever have big medical bills yuo can’t > pay? That happens too. Both at the same time is really rough. Last I > heard, you pay back loans, not donations. I pay back donations with > gratitude and by providing accurate, free information. I’ve been doing > that for 20 years. Started with BBS’s, and moved to web in ‘94.

Great rationalization. >>I do get a few donations here and there from those who appreciate the >>work I put into sharing our experiences, but primarily I’m self funded. >>So system upgrades compete with food and clothes. If I could just teach >>the kids to eat grass and run around naked. > First time I have heard lack of funds as an excuse for poor workmanship. > What poor workmanship? I wasn’t aware you could tell the difference, > since "work" doesn’t seem to be one of your strong points …

Look at the wiring, then compare it to (I should bite my tongue) Waynes installation.

Response:

>> > First time I have heard lack of funds as an excuse for poor workmanship. > What poor workmanship? I wasn’t aware you could tell the difference, > since "work" doesn’t seem to be one of your strong points … >Look at the wiring, then compare it to (I should bite my tongue) Waynes >installation.

Hey Steve, I see that George is using my setup as an example of good workmanship. But check out one of his previous posts –  "My wiring is always 100% Most of my work is fixing up systems designed by people like Nick and Wayne." http://tinyurl.com/4jb3y It seems he’s been too busy criticizing to think of using a spreadsheet <snorf> to keep track of his opinions. So don’t be surprised if someday he says something nice about your setup too. He will have to continue using others’ systems as examples though, since he’s too ashamed of his own to show photos. Apparently it’s all part of his master plan to impress prospective "book" purchasers. Imagine how low his opinion must be of *them*. Wayne

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> > First time I have heard lack of funds as an excuse for poor workmanship. >> What poor workmanship? I wasn’t aware you could tell the difference, >> since "work" doesn’t seem to be one of your strong points … >Look at the wiring, then compare it to (I should bite my tongue) Waynes >installation. > Hey Steve, I see that George is using my setup as an example of good > workmanship. But check out one of his previous posts –  "My wiring is > always 100% Most of my work is fixing up systems designed by people > like Nick and Wayne." http://tinyurl.com/4jb3y > It seems he’s been too busy criticizing to think of using a > spreadsheet <snorf> to keep track of his opinions. So don’t be > surprised if someday he says something nice about your setup too. He > will have to continue using others’ systems as examples though, since > he’s too ashamed of his own to show photos. Apparently it’s all part > of his master plan to impress prospective "book" purchasers. Imagine > how low his opinion must be of *them*. > Wayne

Nope! That dosen’t add up to two days autonomy either.

Response: